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Golfers taking Saudi money and splitting the sport

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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,232 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    This is not tournament golf, it's a clown show exhibition roughly based on the game of golf. The names of the teams are hilariously cringe, Ironheads, Stingers, Crushers, Acers, Punch, Hy Flyers. 🤣

    This nonsense will be short lived expensive folly, they can't even give away the TV rights.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,658 ✭✭✭Nermal


    Your apologia for head-chopping terrorism sponsors is quite the contrast next to your numerous posts on the Russia thread.

    Why waste so many words? You could have just said 'it's OK when we do it'.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    It's not an apologia. I like Saudi behaviour as much as the next person, which is to say not very much.

    Do I recognize Saudi is a lynchpin for global energy security? Sure I do.

    We regrettably have to play ball (that goes for every country that likes to keep their show on the road) with them. Unless you're suggesting some class of an invasion of the country overturning the royal family.

    If you want to bring Russia into it, the Saudi's have never done something as spectacularly dangerous as attempting an annextion of a UN member while threatening nuclear war every other week.

    The Saudis get up to other sh*tbaggery, but I can see the distinction and scale of difference in danger to the world order between the two. Can you?



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,533 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    Mickleson though has a huge gambling problem. I heard an interview with the journo who broke his comments on the Saudi regime. He reckons big phil has wasted a serious amount of his net wealth on gambling and doesn't have anywhere near the 400million left. In fact this guy reckons it could be closer to 10-12 million all said and done.

    Still though you'd have more respect for a guy if he just said he was doing for the money.

    One thing that strikes me is do we start brandishing footballers the same who take money or teachers / nurses /. tech guys who get paid huge money etc.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,658 ✭✭✭Nermal




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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭valoren


    It's easy for the likes of McIlroy and Justin Thomas to pontificate as they are elite players who enjoy guaranteed financial security i.e. even if their game deserted them then they’re set for life. They don't need the money but some joe schmoe who is struggling to keep his card by earning half a million dollars, who needs to make cuts, who stresses over booking (or not booking flights and hotels) for the Booz Allen Classic might have his head turned by the prospect of financial security.

    You might empathise with such players who have an opportunity to quit their grinding but there is obviously some extreme cognitive dissonance going on with those other elite players who are already financially secure who have joined up about the source of funding. These guys are professionals who will seek out the maximum amount of money they can in the shortest amount of time possible even if it that means disregarding morals or scruples. The PGA commissioner saying their decision was money based was pathetic. Well, duh. These are professionals, they play to make wonga, as much of it as possible. I guess to have become an elite golfer in an individual sport in the first place means possessing a healthy dose of self-centredness and self-absorption in order to excel which can lead one to be capable of mentally disregarding events such as Jamal Khashoggi’s murder which they were not involved with. Mickelson at least is self-aware enough of what the "scary motherf*cker" Saudis are all about but he thinks he can enforce change on the PGA Tour by embracing them. It's classic cognitive dissonance i.e. I'm only taking their $200 million because I feel I can do some good for my professional peers on the PGA Tour. Nobody buys it but in the end money talks even if it means selling out your reputation. Greg Norman, the template for the “make as much dosh as possible” professional, has always tried to form a world tour. I guess his dissonance is that he’s allowing for more options for professionals but he’s pocketing mind boggling amounts of money in doing so.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,062 ✭✭✭rogber


    In the Russia thread Scholz is frequently portrayed as the devil for putting German economic interests over human rights when it comes to Russian oil and gas.

    I don't see how these sports people are morally any better, none of them need the money, whether it's golfers or footballers or Formula 1 teams. They take the benefits and ignore the atrocities

    But when it comes right down to it, I suspect that very few of us can have a clean conscience when we look at, say, our consumer decisions.

    Money will often trump moral values, always has, always will



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,663 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    yeah but there is a difference between us having no choice but to buy Saudi products at the petrol pump and sports people pro-actively taking money off them, they dont have to do that when they have alternatives to earn a living. We as yet dont have a viable alternative to oil so the only choice is to use it or not be able to work, go to the supermarket, etc, its a bit of a non-choice when it comes to general living.

    But I do agree with you, money often trumps morals. This is just a particularly naked version of it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,993 ✭✭✭kirving


    I can see the difficult decision for players who are objectively relatively wealthy compared to Joe Soap, but are scraping to make tournaments regularly. Saudi money might make the difference between buying your own kids houses and supporting them for life, and building permanent wealth that lasts for generations.

    Overall though, the responsibility for our reliance on morally bankrupt regimes for our energy needs is the fault of respective western governments.

    Some of it our course in is down to technology (electric car batteries, the cost of wind turbines, solar PV efficiency, etc.) but in Ireland for example, for a long time we failed to insulate our buildings properly, failed to encourage people into more energy efficient apartments, failed to build large scale public transport, failed to even consider nuclear power and failed to even tax cars in a sensible manner.

    The sooner we become energy independent, the better for all of us.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 33,647 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Love how the recent radio debates on this was all about golf selling itself out to dodgy folk.

    Why was there no such outrage when the likes of Newcastle, Man City and Barca (More than a club my ar$e) sold their souls for money?



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,270 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Ah come on.

    The Saudi takeover of Newcastle united had loads of outrage about the background of who was buying the club, and it was a massive media story.

    Man City and Barca not so much, because we have not yet come to see other gulf nations in the same way as we do Saudi Arabia.



  • Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The sums of money involved are insane,and we have plenty in this state would bend over backwards for saudi money....


    I remember being lambasted,and being called all sorts for saying waterford/state shouldnt be bending over backwards to get saudi money to develop the north quays here (thankfully they called it off-at a late stage)



    But for the golfers involved,they mostly dont need the money and its utter greed driving this....what can be done with 400million,that cant be done with 200million🤔



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,663 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    Was just listening to Off the Ball discuss it and one of them reckons it is a geopolitical move by the Saudis to eventually seize control of the entire sport of golf from the Americans. Interesting take that probably isnt too far wide of the mark, what we are seeing now is the thin edge of the wedge with most players recruited past their prime. But in years to come they are likely to convince more and more of the worlds top players to sign up.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,639 ✭✭✭Montage of Feck


    So far it's only a bunch of wash outs blatantly signing on for the paycheck.

    🙈🙉🙊



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,639 ✭✭✭Montage of Feck


    Ironically the Dakar rally had to move to South America due to Arab funded Islamic extremism, and now takes place in Arabia due to Arab funding.

    .

    🙈🙉🙊



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭valoren




  • Registered Users Posts: 19,663 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    Mainly but they did recruit Byrson deChambeau who won a US Open as recently as 2020, he is in his prime

    There was another irony about that Dakar rally being held in Saudi. The 12 women who MBS had imprisoned for driving a car as a protest on Saudi women not being allow to drive were housed in a prison in the desert. The Dakar rally route went within a few hundred meters of the prison. There were females driving cars in the race who were literally passing the prison where 12 Saudi women were locked up for driving cars.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,232 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    DeChambeau is a giant fúcking bellend.

    Since his open win because of apparent hip and wrist injuries he hasn't done much, doesn't bode well for a guy that relies on heavy hitting.

    He is not even in top 20 and just this week said he wasn't going to jump ship.

    Sounds like he has, maybe because he was told he is passed his prime.

    Johnson is a strange one, he definitely had it in him to attempt the quadruple and write his name into the history books, he says he will still compete in the majors (if he is invited) but I don't think you can compete at the highest level playing exhibition sort of golf.

    TBF to him though, he came out and said he is doing for the money. So fair play to him for that.

    Will be interesting to see if they get lifetime bans though and the level of regret from some of them when this clown show goes títs up.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭valoren


    It's kind of hard to do much when you're injured.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,232 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Indeed, the point was he is in his prime, he clearly isn't.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,639 ✭✭✭Montage of Feck


    I was too young to remember him from Miami Vice and the other lad sounds like french cheese. ;)

    🙈🙉🙊



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭valoren


    Schwartzel won $4 million for 54 holes of golf.

    For comparison, A PGA Tour player, based on a generous $1.5 million for a tour win, would need to win 3 tournaments and play 216 holes to exceed that amount. Or at a minimum win twice and place high up the leaderboard (i.e. top 5).

    Any journeyman tour pro would be enticed by the prospect of having the playing week of their career and win such money. Or if they play rubbish get a cushion of guaranteed prize money.

    Post edited by valoren on


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,057 ✭✭✭mcburns07


    It’s completely unsustainable though? It’s exactly the reason why FFP was brought in to soccer. KSA are using their money to crush the opposition, only this time its another tour.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,663 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    yeah and I was reading that the 1,024th ranked player in the world was playing in Hertfordshire with a $25m prize pot on the iine so it is very attractive to the journeymen pros.

    There are reports now that Bubba Watson and Ricky Fowler could be the latest to join the LIV tour, they would be further losses to the PGA if it happens.

    Also now the families of the victims of 9/11 have protested against the Saudis and are being critical of American golfers who have joined their tour. Given Saudi involvement in 9/11 some golfers are going to face even more awkward questions in the US next week.



  • Registered Users Posts: 648 ✭✭✭Irelandsnumberone


    Very laughable all the fiasco around this.

    Saudi Blood money bad

    US Blood money good



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,057 ✭✭✭mcburns07


    US blood money? The PGA tour is funded by massive sponsors like Mastercard, FedEx, John Deere, etc. as well as big attendances.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,566 ✭✭✭Hoboo


    John Deere pay the PGA for sponsorship. They also supply the US army with military vehicles. The US army has one well known torture facility in Guantanamo and reportedly others.

    Is that not blood money?



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Kerrygold butter is served in US army mess halls, something something...the GAA is dripping in the blood of Iraqi civilians.

    Am I doing this right?

    LIV is owned and bankrolled directly by the Saudi government. I think we can all see the difference between that and John Deere supplying cargo and casualty evac vehicles to the US and other militaries.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,245 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Let them at it. I don't think anyone believes that professional golf commerce as represented by the PGA etc., is squeaky clean. There'd be a lot of funny money in that. There was a great podcast a while back exposing the outrageous abuse of tax breaks by fancy golf country clubs there. If the golf industry is trying to isolate these renegades it's only for the love of dollars in their bank account and feck all to with sport.



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