Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XII (The Byrne Supremacy)

With a cooler head this morning then last night, I agree with your points.

Where dies the team go from here? Hopefully take the learnings from the losses?

The lack of desire is a massive disappointment.

You have to hand it to the Bulls. Travelling over 8000 miles on a 6-day turnaround and getting the job done when they've had their best players - the likes of Snyman, etc. - picked off by wealthy sides overseas. If Leinster had gone down to SA and won it would have been all 'the best non-international team in the world' and the like.

When the Bulls repelled the early Leinster pick and drive onslaught with the game still scoreless it made me think that it's all very well using those tactics against the likes of Ulster, Glasgow, etc. but you need a bit more intelligence if the other team can stand up to those sort of bullying plays.

Would Leinster have won if they started Sexton? I suppose those are the kind of selection gambles coaches make. You'd have to think there was an element of underestimating the opposition, though.

I don't agree with the comments saying it's worrying for Ireland. Even if a lot of players are the same it's different teams with different coaches. There wasn't much correlation between Leinster and Ireland performances/results in 2011/2012 and in 2014/2015, so why would there be now?

Leinster 89 - 7 Montpellier

Leinster 76 - 14 Glasgow

La Rochelle 24 - 21 Leinster (when Leinster were 16-point favourites or something)

Leinster 26 - 27 Bulls (Leinster 20 odd point favourites pre-match)

It's hard to disagree with TRC's assessment.

Jenkins coming in will help as he's a massive lump. Extra forward power is always welcome even if I think it's not the thing which we're most deficient in. I think we have to seriously look at someone other than Ross Byrne at 10 as well. He struggled under pressure against both La Rochelle and the Bulls. Maybe have a look at Frawley? But the most important area must surely centre around mental skills and decision making. Too many poor choices were made when the players weren't under pressure.

And what we're doing at set piece has to be re-evaluated. Our lineout was taken apart in a way that I've never seen before. Sheehans throwing was on the money, but time and again the call and lift were well scouted.

Leinster don't lack the physical tools to win these games. At certain instances we struggled physically, but we were physically dominant just as often. I think the mental and technical side of our game has taken a beating in recent weeks though. That's the main area of concern.

The season hasn't been a total disaster. We've played a lot of good rugby and even more importantly, seen young players take a step up in their development and overall on pitch performance. That'll stand towards us in the years to come.

Last season Dan Sheehan was firmly behind Ronan Kelleher. The latter was that but more physical in tight and had better handling. And whilst I still think that's the case, Sheehan has improved on those aspects of his game as well. There's not much to separate them now.

Jamie Osborne looks very comfortable at 13 now. Makes very few mistakes and isn't phased in attack or defence despite being just 20 years old. Thought he was excellent in the South Africa tour when so many senior players were absent.

Joe McCarthy is the big breakthrough this season. He has all the physical tools to be a dominant second row. Powerful carrier in tight, but also has a decent burst of speed to be a useful option in the wider channels. I've also seen him put opposition forwards on their arse when tackling them. He's also in that new mould of second row forward that's just as comfortable with passing and offloading.

A word on TOB too. Injury has ruined his season and he'll be absent for months to come as well. But he's another with a big future provided his knee holds up. Has McFaddens attitude around the pitch, but reminds me a lot of Hugo Keenan in that his basics are rock solid and consistently makes good decisions. Hope he can make it back.

Knock ons will happen when conditions are as poor as they were yesterday. McCarthy just turned 21 but wasn't bothered in the slightest by the Bulls physicality. That's pretty rare for an Irish second row.

Sheehan is a great player and had a great season. But his breakthrough was last year.

Probably for the best the season ended ASAP as now it gives the Leinster players almost 3 weeks to rest up before the test series in NZL.

Blaming the hooker for your lineout issues is too simplistic. And it's just wrong in this instance as well. All of Sheehans throws were straight and directed at the Leinster target they were supposed to go to. The issue was the Bulls consistently reading Leinsters calls.

I also think JGP is not the scrum half you want on the field when sexton is off the pitch.. taking quick taps when the points were better option and faffing around. In the past few games he hasn't gotten the back line going at all... The best back line move for o'loughlins try came after JGP was gone off.

His organisation is very sporadic. Mcgrath may have been a safer pair of hands directing the team around the field especially at this end of the season..

Also after re watching, the decision not to take the points when 10 down with Ryan in the bin was a poor call.

The penalty would have eaten up the clock. We needed the penalty and would have received the ball back from the kick off. Going for the corner with only Molony in the 2nd row allowed Bulls to target him at the lineout and they got 2 men up around him and turned it over. Very easy say that in hindsight obviously..

Well if they need Sexton on the field to perform maybe many of these players need to look in the mirror rather than throwing the 10 under the bus.

Im a broken record on this but with the quality Ireland and Leinster have they shouldnt be so reliant on Sexton being on the field, they should be good enough to win most games they play with anyone at 10, serious soul searching is needed for some of the players if they are this reliant.

Leinster made more elementary mistakes than they usually do in 5 games, lineout was a total shambles, knock-ons under no pressure, turned over a bunch of times at the ruck, just a terrible performance.

I've watched the La Rochelle and Bulls games twice now. Live and a recorded version.

My thoughts on both games are pretty much the same. Leinster weren't bullied like I originally thought. A lot of online coverage is focusing on the physicality deficit, which I think is incorrect. We faced an early physical onslaught in both matches, weathered it and then started applying our own pressure. There were plenty of occasions in both games when our forwards won the collisions. But we made simple errors which I really didn't expect a team as skilled as Leinster to make.

There were too many handling errors when not under much pressure and also poor game management. Against La Rochelle we should've gone for the corner more when they were under a yellow card warning, and against the Bulls we should've taken the points when our lineout was creaking. It's worrying because our players didn't take heed the lessons learned, but it's definitely fixable.

Yes, Leinster faced sides who didn't wilt against our forwards carrying game like so many. But a lot of the online pundits, who hold themselves up to be gurus of the game, seem to have boiled it down to Leinster getting the shite kicked out of them. They took a battering, but gave our just as much as they got. Leinsters problems are far more mental than physical. The coaches and players need to address why they make bad decisions when things aren't going entirely their own way.