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Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 29,461 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Nope, where are the sources in your posts? You are very quick to shoot down any claims by stating they are Western propaganda. Your offer no sources of your own to counter it.

    Your nonsense about the 'fouding document of the state' has already been dealt with. That was not an international treaty or document signed by Urkaine as a sovereign country. It was a document by a state soviet when Ukraine was still a colony of the USSR. It has no standing and has been entirely superseded by the Ukrainian constitution. It's like saying Eater Rising 1916 declaration is an internatinally binding treaty. Total nonsense.

    You stated that Ukraine violated the Budapest agreement, yet could point to no clause of the Budapest agreement Ukraine actually violated. That's when you dug up the state document, which is not referenced in the Budapest agreement and claimed that Budapest was 'null and void' because of an entirely different document not even referenced by Budapest and therefore whatever it may be it can in no way represent a violation of Budapest. This is your idea of 'sources' for your 'claims'.

    And by claims I mean a fabric of lies.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,358 ✭✭✭BluePlanet


    So Ukraine doesn't manage it's borders and some trucks go across, and THIS is evidence that Russians have invaded?

    You do understand that many, many people in Ukraine (particularly the east) have families and extended families across jurisdictions and some of them, joined militias against Ukraine and sought to bring arms, goods and contraband entirely without the government of Ukraine or Russia's knowledge. How is that surprising to you?

    And a sewn arm patch of the Russian Federation that can be purchased anywhere.

    Oh and militiamen claiming to be "Russian army"? That's highly dubious and likely said to intimidate prisoners.

    One small problem with your claim though, is the org is not claiming that the Russian army were in Donbas!



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,885 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    ^^Well good old @BurgerFace remarked on it himself in a moment of truth earlier on thread - "it doesn't matter now".

    The stuff they spout out is (mostly) a load of manure and intended to confuse so it is much better to watch the actions of Russia.

    I don't think (?) Putin has edit: ever been balked or stopped from getting what he wants in the end, so seems (to me) he's proceeding in the same manner here with this war (doubling down) but the stakes are extremely high for everyone, possibly even him now.

    Though he must believe he's completely untouchable (or he wouldn't have started this war in the first place), can do and say exactly what he likes.

    Post edited by fly_agaric on


  • Registered Users Posts: 213 ✭✭bobowen



    Was the American Constitution an international treaty? No.

    Is it still used to justify school shootings today as it is the founding document of the state? Yes.

    The only reason Ukraine exists as a separate country is because it guaranteed to be neutral to reflect its special geographical, historical and diverse population. It also meant it could not join a Russian centered military bloc. For years this functioned perfectly and neutrality was supported by the vast majority of the population until the Americans started interfering and poking the bear with coups and biological laboratories funded by the pentagon.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,147 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Speaking of claptrap...

    The OSCE observer you linked on Russian soldiers:

    If the question is what we have seen on the ground … we have seen convoys leaving and entering Ukraine on dirt roads in the middle of the night, in areas where there is no official crossing. In one border area, we’ve also made this public, including some footage we have put out. We have seen specific types of weapons that we have described in detail, including electronic warfare equipment. We have spoken to prisoners taken by the Ukrainian forces who claim to be members of the Russian armed forces fighting on rotation in Ukraine. We have seen men with the insignia of the Russian Federation, but you can buy this jacket anywhere. We have also seen the insignia of Germany, Spain, and others—but also of the Russians.

    Maybe you figured people wouldn't read it, or you didn't read it yourself. That observer and others who are independent of both sides in this paint a consistent picture of both Ukrainian and Russian backing of their side and atrocities on both sides. Putin himself admitted that Russian "specialists" and "volunteers" were in Donbas back in 2016.

    And then in the usual bait and switch link to a PDF that was prepared by a non-state organization ‘The Foundation for The Study of Democracy’ (headed by M. Grigoriev) and the Russian Public Council for International Cooperation and Public Diplomacy (presided over by S. Ordzhonikidze) with the assistance of the Russian Peace Foundation (L. Slutsky, Y. Sutormina), S. Mamedov, I. Morozov, E. Tarlo, D. Savelyev, A. Chepa and other members of the Committee for Public Support of the Residents of Southeastern Ukraine A Russian based foundation. Yeah, hardly unbiased... And I suppose a Russian foundation studying democracy has an advantage of being able to study same like a labrat, at some distance.

    Ukraine had/has a serious issue with right wing nationalists and has bloody hands in Donbas, something too many have chosen to forget in the rush to defend their side. As has much of western media. The BBC being a classic example. Getting all het up for years about the growing influence of the boogyman right in Ukraine as the BBC tends to and magically having amnesia since the Russian invasion, even sugarcoating it. Ah it wasn't that many. Which it actually wasn't. As usual the truth sits somewhere in the middle.

    On the other side of that we have Russia. The same Russia that invaded Crimea. The same Russia that foments violence along ethnic lines. The same Russia that invaded Ukraine and tried to take Kyiv. And failed. Oh and BTW the same "it was a strategic feint" nonsense is taught to Russian kids about Stalin and the German invasion. He let them in to encircle them. Yeah... And of course their Great Patriotic War has a convenient start date after Stalin and Hitler agreed to carve up the Baltics between them. When and if that's brought up it's painted as "peace treaties".

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 213 ✭✭bobowen



    Don't stop believin'. Hold on to that feelin'.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,683 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl



    I think you'll find the Second Amendement is what is used to "justify" school shootings - i.e. they changed the bloody thing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,461 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Nope. Your post left the realm of reality the moment you compared the BBC with Russian state propaganda.

    You have no conception of what you are criticising, if you compare the BBC to the lapdogs of Russian state TV.

    Remind us again, what happened to the Russian journalists who criticised Russia's illegal war with Ukraine?

    This is the post we can expect from someone who does not understand the concepts of freedom of the press \ had not experienced it.

    A Russian journalist has been fined and released after she protested against the war in Ukraine on a live TV news programme and made an anti-war video.

    That is not a free press. That is a fascist dictatorship silencing its critics.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,461 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    UN issues war crimes warning.

    The UN has said that unfair trials of prisoners of war amounted to war crimes, after three foreigners captured fighting for Ukraine were sentenced to death by pro-Russian rebels.

    “Since 2015, we have observed that the so-called judiciary in these self-proclaimed republics has not complied with essential fair trial guarantees,” said Shamdasani.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/un-war-crimes-warning-trial-5787917-Jun2022/

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,272 ✭✭✭fash


    Just so everyone is clear: Marina Ovsyannikova is a Russian agent: she held up a sign written in English (with small writing in Russian) on a delayed transmission channel which went ahead with the transmission, was given a $200 fine (where random people were given 10 years & torture for putting up signs in supermarkets) and immediately left the country to travel to "on the fence" Italy & Germany telling TV audiences that they should drop sanctions and be nicer to Russia - and also getting a job at die Welt to continue telling Germans to be nicer to Russia and not give weapons to Ukraine



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  • Registered Users Posts: 29,461 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Thanks for the update! That's a whole other level of propaganda when your news outlets are fronts for Russian agents.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,579 ✭✭✭20silkcut


    15 year jail terms and immediate arrest for holding up a blank sheet of paper.



  • Registered Users Posts: 559 ✭✭✭BurgerFace


    The Russians are pathetic. Their equipment is stone-age. They haven't a clue what they are doing. The Ukrainians are going to smash them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 559 ✭✭✭BurgerFace


    Listen to this British bloviating buffoon:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQtL6DlZ248



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,812 ✭✭✭✭bear1


    One then has to wonder if the Chinese could therefore tell Russia the same when it comes to Vladivostok.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,550 ✭✭✭amandstu


    "Biden: Zelensky 'didn't want to hear' invasion warnings"



    Interesting.I am surprised that Zelensky gave that impression to Biden.Surprised that he would be "caught with his pants down" as it were by the Russian manoeuvering.


    Maybe he saw an advantage in not letting Biden know that he was expecting an invasion .


    To be fair it seemed like madness to most people at the time and we still haven't been told how US intelligence could predict Putina's actual intentions.

    And again ,after Trump it must have been counter intuitive for Ukraine to take too much from the US at face value.



  • Registered Users Posts: 559 ✭✭✭BurgerFace


    Do you really want to fcuk with these people?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtZUeHmpV6A&list=RDZ8lfmtdvnpI&index=3



  • Registered Users Posts: 559 ✭✭✭BurgerFace


    The Ukraine is finished. The russians have shown that.

    You should not poke the bear.



  • Registered Users Posts: 31,611 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    By poking the bear you mean, like, daring to exist?



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,812 ✭✭✭✭bear1


    The shitetalk from you would outshine a Kremlin backed tv show.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 559 ✭✭✭BurgerFace


    Would that talk be akin to what has been spoken over the last 2 months? Victory to Ukraine? Russian tanks are worse that 1980's LADAs?

    Your Ukraine is finished. And would you like to know why? Russians don't TALK they just DO.

    You TALK.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,149 ✭✭✭Ozymandius2011


    I recommend Canadian Ukrainian Volunteer on twitter. He has a lot of updates and is fighting in Kherson region. It looks like Ukraine is making some progress in Kherson region. Success there could be crucial in drawing away pressure on the Donbass. The region has a dam with a bridge over it in the town of Nova Kakhkova. Its important to Russia in particular because of the North Crimean Canal, which is why its doubtful if the Russians would blow it up to stop the Ukrainian's crossing but not impossible. Early on in March, the Russians blow up another dam that controlled the water supply from the Dniepr to Crimea. The water issue has been a bone of contention since the Russian annexation of Crimea.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,812 ✭✭✭✭bear1


    More shite, you're not even good at it.

    "MY" Ukraine has won the war as much as "YOUR" Russia.



  • Registered Users Posts: 925 ✭✭✭ilkhanid


    Talk? Maybe you should have a listen to Russian television and the oceans of bulls1t talk about all the things they're going to do: re-establish the Russian empire, swamp Britain with a nuclear-generated tidal wave, hang Ukrainian politicians and journalists, take back Lithuania, punish Poland, destroy the USA with nuclear missiles, destroy and assimilate the Ukrainian nation blah, blah blah.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,661 ✭✭✭Sugar_Rush


    Noam Chomsky questioning how "unprovoked" the Ukraine war is:

    Thoughts?

    In physics we trust....... (as insanely difficult to decipher as it may be)



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,440 ✭✭✭McGiver


    As much as I object to certain US foreign policy decisions in the last 30 years.....Chomsky is an armchair Socialist who never achieved anything politically and only critiques without ever suggesting an alternative solution.

    In this case, he's directly supporting a hostile regime's propaganda with his "smart" comments and this is VERY unhelpful.


    Edit: I've tried listening to it, he scores several own goals right at the beginning. I've turned it off when he waffled something about "diplomatic solution". He might need to talk to the Czechs, Slovaks, Poles, Estonians, Lithuanians and the Finns what they think about this idea based on historical experience. I think it's clear to anyone now that the only solution is a total defeat and collapse of Russian mafia state.

    Post edited by McGiver on


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,440 ✭✭✭McGiver


    @Mods please ban the genocide denialist trolls such as @BurgerFace.

    I must call it out publicly. I reported several times but there's no action. I'm sure others reported too. This has to stop. They are not discussing anything - they poison the well, constantly trolling, engaging in whataboutery and spreading outright falsehoods (lies) and thus supporting the propaganda of hostile authoritarian genocidal regime.

    Thank you 😎👍🏻

    Post edited by McGiver on


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,826 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Russia has a primitive society with a veneer of Western technology.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,550 ✭✭✭amandstu


    Maybe do not feed the trolls is in order.

    It is a matter of disinterest to categorize Russia as primitive or otherwise. They (should) have their own furrow to plough and it is no help to Ukraine to know that their neighbours are primitive or not (obviously it is better to face combatants who respect the rules of warfare)

    Ukraine might have been invaded by any of its neighbours as sophisticated as may be and still would be entitled to defend itself however it saw fit.


    There is no need to characterise Russian behaviour in general when the specifics of their behaviour in Ukraine speaks for itself.

    Post edited by amandstu on


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,272 ✭✭✭fash


    Actually most/all Osint people on Twitter believe he is fake and (given hours of activity) located in north America (so possibly Canada) - he just retweets stuff found on telegram. Has been caught out on a couple of claims.



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