F1 2022 Round 8 - AZERBAIJAN GP

Burkie1203 · 12-06-2022 2:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119191851#Comment_119191851

His team. They design a donkey and refuse to make changes which sacrifices performance

Faugheen · 12-06-2022 2:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119191855#Comment_119191855

Not triggered at all, but thanks for your exceptional contribution.

ShamoBuc · 12-06-2022 2:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119191857#Comment_119191857

As I said, you sit there, defending him from milking it etc while you sit there comfortably on your couch.

I know you like Hamilton but Christ, give it a rest.

This place is all about opinions. I clearly have mine, based on years of listening to Hamilton overstating things.

You clearly have yours.

JRant · 12-06-2022 2:14pm

It's not just Hamilton that's suffering though. Russel has mentioned he's having physical issues with this car and Leclerc has called for something to be done about the porpoising. These aren't just race issues but could cause long term health problems fir the driver's. The teams and the governing body have a duty of care to make sure they aren't purposely causing these issues. Merc should raise the ride height but that's only a sticking plaster to issues created by the rules IMO.

Jordan 199 · 12-06-2022 2:14pm

Both Alpine drivers in the points. I'm happy with that.

Hijpo · 12-06-2022 2:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119191908#Comment_119191908

But none of them got out of the car like they are 4000 years old or gave it the solitary "argh my back" on the radio

BikeRacer · 12-06-2022 2:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119191910#Comment_119191910

Great race from Seb too for P6

Faugheen · 12-06-2022 2:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119191923#Comment_119191923

Hamilton is 37 and has been racing in F1 for 15 years.

LeClerc and Russell are both 24 and have been racing in F1 for a combined 9 years.

Whether you think or not, the physical toll of the sport catches up and impacts you harder as you get older.

12-06-2022 2:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119191735#Comment_119191735

... I'm wondering why...

flazio · 12-06-2022 2:25pm

Daniel Ricciardo just told F1 TV that he's having some back issues as well.

Jordan 199 · 12-06-2022 2:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119191934#Comment_119191934

It was. His best result of the season so far.

Joeface · 12-06-2022 2:28pm

That all went a bit flat early on with Ferrari issues . No one was touching either red bull. Mercedes did well With Russell P3 and Hamilton get back up to P4.

The only real race entertainment was Vettel and Hamilton over taking in sector one .

Alpine got a double points finish but It was lucky , after Alonso got a few overtakes after his pit stop , Ocon been his last , without the slipstream or DRS , he made no gains , Vettel was on much older tires and pulled away from him, so It just seems to be the long straight was all they had. They used it well.

McLaren were poor as well.

Street circuit again next weekend ..

JRant · 12-06-2022 2:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119191923#Comment_119191923

Hamilton is a lot older than Russell and has way more miles on the body clock in racing terms. That Merc looks pretty horrendous from the onboard footage. I'm sure he's hamming it up a little but there's no doubt that car is causing issues.

pjohnson · 12-06-2022 2:38pm

Inspiring from Lewis overcoming such dreadful circumstances inflicted by the evil FIA that had him even being able to finish in doubt. To be the only driver experiencing this and still be behind his team mate again. Outstanding.

Andrew76 · 12-06-2022 2:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119191908#Comment_119191908

The issue is not caused by the rules, it's caused by some teams' interpretation of the rules. It has a simple fix - raise the height of your car. Not sure if di Resta is still on the Merc payroll but even he was talking sense about the issue. I don't see the FIA making changes this season and for sure enough teams would not vote for a change either.

From what I've read it seems Hamilton is struggling more than Russell because they are trying more 'experimental' things on his car? Well clearly it's not working so just have the exact same setup on both cars then he's no worse off than his teammate. I do have sympathy for Lewis with the back issues though but there is a fix for it, Merc just don't want to implement it.

Hijpo · 12-06-2022 2:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119191957#Comment_119191957

They guy having a very very poor season.... of course he is....

If age is an issue it's time to retire, same reason a lot of other athletes are not competing in their sport at 37

Harika · 12-06-2022 3:07pm

Snore festival, had to happen.

F2 races were so promising ...

klose · 12-06-2022 4:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119192134#Comment_119192134

Wouldn't say a snore fest, did have some decnet racing and overtaking and a couple vscs to shake things up a bit, though I did think there was going to be plenty overtaking on the long striaght when it seemed like most overtaking took place in the second drs zone before turn 3. Think they said there was a head wind which kind of nerfed it?

It's funny how ferrari and red bulls position has really done a 180 from the start of the season in regards to reliability, Leclercs head must be melted. If current form persists its hard to see red bull not pissing both titles this season add to that sainz is definitely struggling and perez is on an upward trajectory.

I wonder where vettel would have finished had he not went down the escape road? P4 potentially? P6 a great result for him, Aston seemed to have traded places with the likes of Haas and Alfa Romeo who've slipped back a bit. You could really throw a blanket over the midfield.

Mclaren comes across as a bit of a toxic place at the moment, I can see Norris and Ricciardo colliding on the track soon.

LIGHTNING · 12-06-2022 4:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119191946#Comment_119191946

DiResta did call it out when he heard that message as well.

vectra · 12-06-2022 4:33pm

Ah lads, drop the age factor with Hamilton. Kimi was much older and raced more races than him and was able to hop in and out of the car like a youngster.

Hamilton is playing the issue up big time and now George is at it.

Anyone notice the word "Dangerous" coming into play?

Anyone like to hazard a guess where that is intended for? 😊

pjohnson · 12-06-2022 4:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119192457#Comment_119192457

Alonso is older than him.

12-06-2022 4:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119192408#Comment_119192408

It was meant to be sung :P

El_Duderino 09 · 12-06-2022 4:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119190934#Comment_119190934

That's not really true though. Today, max pulled a 15s gap on Perez in about 20 laps and then the gap stabilised. That suggests max had an average of about 0.6s per lap speed advantage for those laps, taking perez slow pitstop into account. That's a huge gap between teammates.

I'm assuming max managed the gap from that point onwards and if true, it's similar to the kind of pace advantage max has had at most races. Perez is a decent driver, but he's not top tier and he isn't close to Max's pace.

vectra · 12-06-2022 4:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119192499#Comment_119192499

For once I have to 100% agree with you.

Max has one hand on the trophy already I think.

McFly85 · 12-06-2022 5:32pm

Mercedes seem to have 2 short term choices: raise the ride height of their car and lose competitiveness or wreck their drivers.

Im actually surprised they don’t just consider this year a wash and work to massively improve next years.

namloc1980 · 12-06-2022 5:41pm

..

LIGHTNING · 12-06-2022 5:45pm

You can see why Seb lost all that hair driving for Ferrari. They are such a mess of a team

12-06-2022 5:55pm

Teams this season just showing what they are. Ferrari clearly have talent and we know they have money but they're Italian and stereotypes come to be for a reason. Red Bull stayed up front with their extreme development and professionalism. They had problems and sorted them. Mercedes are doing the best with what they have. As with many large companies or groups of people however the longer they go without admitting they have an issue, the bigger and more painful the rebuild will be. Outside of those 3 none of the other teams have a whole load to say. Same teams look good now and there on different tracks but the performance at the top end just isn't there. Without testing they can do all the simulation they want but it means shifting philosophy is basically off the table until a new chassis for new season.

mickdw · 12-06-2022 6:11pm

I wouldn't like to sit in that Merc but Hamilton likes to play it up.

The way he was limping around the paddock afterwards reminded me of a child playing up for sympathy.

pjohnson · 12-06-2022 7:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119192903#Comment_119192903

Certainly looked that way with Toto even setting up the performance pre-race.

Like if Hamilton actually isn't exagerrating and its genuine pain he has more than enough influence and power to just outright open his mouth and go fùck this Toto fix my damn car immediately or I'm out, this rubbish is unsafe and you are killing my back. Mercedes would fix it ASAP rather than the PR disaster of Hamilton walking based on heath & safety concerns

But rather than actually challenging Mercedes for putting him in an unsafe car thats risking damaging his back long term, instead the entire team appears to be targeting the FIA to "fix" it. It reeks of being a tactical acting performance to use as "evidence" rather than genuine concern.

mr_edge_to_you · 12-06-2022 7:22pm

Thought RB were correct to tell Checo not to defend. He was never going to go all the way to the end keeping Max behind him. Best to ensure the maximum return for the team given the Ferrari shitsh#w. It's a long season and things can change quickly. I imagine that the Constructors Championship is a major deliverable for Horner this year too. That's where the big bucks are!

As regards Checo v Max, you just can't compare them. In 2020, Checo started the last race of the season without having a seat for 2021. He's a great driver and comes across as an absolute gent - who wouldn't want him to be a world champion but he's driving against the best driver in the world. Max looks to have matured massively this year and when you add that to raw pace and talent there'll be no catching him.

Would love to be a fly on the wall in the Ferrari debrief.

Things are most definitely strained in the McLaren garage. There is no love whatsoever between the 2 drivers. As someone else pointed out, it won't be long before Lando and Ricciardo clip each other.

As for Mercedes, seems to be a growing consensus that they are sacrificing their drivers wellbeing to save face for the sh!t box of a car they designed. There's no way that bouncing car can be good for the body but everything Hamilton says comes with a grain of salt. A bit like the boy who cried "wolf" (no pun intended), he's always complaining or giving out about something.

Long way to go in the season yet !

Joeface · 12-06-2022 7:40pm

This makes the Mercedes look just plain dangerous , the bouncing starts ..and oversteer kicks in .

https://streamable.com/gb2g26

ShamoBuc · 12-06-2022 7:48pm

Mercedes clearly want the FIA to sort things out. If it really was back breaking stuff, Hamilton wouldn't be getting into the car next week.

But he most surely will. They could make the changes necessary themselves but would lose out on performance - that ain't gonna happen.

The 'Pantomime' show of getting out of the car like he needed a wheelchair and the limping in the paddock really shows up Mercedes and Hamilton in my view. Nothing else.

12-06-2022 7:50pm

FIA need to put vibration sensors in each car and if they go over a prescribed limit (duration/intensity/whatever) then they get black-flagged.

If some teams consequently need to raise the ride height and lose performance, then tough luck.

Hijpo · 12-06-2022 8:23pm

The side pods on the other cars obviously make it easier to keep the floor stable and give them another surface to direct airflow.

Merc should go back to the other side pod design, their no side pod "concept" is flawed.

mickdw · 12-06-2022 10:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119193297#Comment_119193297

Yep. That would put an end to the bullshit pretty quick.

ctrl-alt-delete · 12-06-2022 10:24pm

I wonder do the control of vibration at work regulations apply here, Toto might be passing that onto the FIA next.

I trust Di Resta was telling the truth when he said they could stop it, but it would hamper performance. In which case Merc and the others should be left to sort it themselves.

If Merc were flying this year and others were struggling I doubt they would be happy about possible reg changes.

AMKC · 12-06-2022 10:33pm

Ye I kind of had a feeling this would be the year in Baku with no big crashes. It was quite a boring race except for Vettels little mistake and the two Ferraris as well as the other two Ferrari engined cars going broke it would have been a lot more boring.

Ferrari really need to sit down and take a long hard look at themselves if they want to have any chance of winning the drivers championships because I think the Constructors is out of there hands now and Red Bull have at least one hand on that now.

I think after this year Alonso should retire. He has done nothing but cause hassle all weekend and the same last weekend in Monaco. He is like an old fellow who trys to give 120 per cent but then realises he is not able to anymore and so just sits back and says a feck it I will just stroll around and old everyone else up. Its sad to see and he used to be my favorite driver. Its time for him to retire for good now do and let another young driver have that seat. Time to move on Alonso

12-06-2022 10:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119193944#Comment_119193944

I get the impression the other teams are fine-tuning things while Mercedes would have to make a huge compromise because their's is just so much worse. Like I said before, Ferrari look fine til you go onboard and their porpoising is insane. But it's a small enough bob. Red Bull look a bit bouncier but it doesn't transfer as much to the drivers. The Merc on the other hand the entire car is hopping. If they could tune it out a little I'm sure they would make some difference but they don't have the tool as it stands to do so. I couldn't understand the talk after Monaco about them having it sorted, Monaco is still a one-off. It showed the car does have decent underlying pace but really after this weekend it looks like they need to stick a fork in it. Recently I thought they'd get back to the front this season. Might happen at certain tracks but the current chassis is a dead-end.

Burkie1203 · 12-06-2022 11:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119193944#Comment_119193944

The red bull looks to have much more ground clearance compared to the Mercs. The problem seems to be in the Merc concept which is quick in the wind tunnel which is why they don't want to change it up

PDR said this a few times and he isn't the only one. Its fairly obvious what they need to do but they obviously want to finish as high up as possible. I think Russell let slip that if they compromised their set up it would cost them at least half a second a lap. And when they are already ~1 second off the pace

Hijpo · 13-06-2022 12:28am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119194151#Comment_119194151

What if they intentionally make it worse to force FIA into changes.

They said already it used to be low frequency bobbing and now it's high frequency bouncing, roll back the change if its making it worse.

Frank Bullitt · 13-06-2022 12:44am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119192730#Comment_119192730

One of the comments I read from The Race was for Merc to scrap this car, they still need to understand the fundamental issues, otherwise they are still in the dark with these rules. Also a proper calamity for them to do that, if they decide to.

agree with installing the sensors, but Merc are playing this up in the hope of suspension changes from the FIA, they had a good system for the last few years which was changed for this year. Changed for all teams as well.

AMKC · 13-06-2022 3:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119194368#Comment_119194368

No need for suspension changes all they need to do is put some springs under the drivers seat so it can compensate fir the bouncing. Surely that is possible on any car that needs it?

Joeface · 13-06-2022 4:23pm

Would only, if possible help the smaller drivers , taller Drivers like Ocon , Russell would sit them up much higher in the car , Drivers like Vettel already sit high it would also affect them

Not much room to play with either . It's down the Mercedes really deciding what to do , There has to be a happy medium of slightly higher ride height , Run Higher engine mode and accept the engine penalties as they will use more . Focus on next year . With Ferrari Realiablity in question Second is still possible in the Constructors .

Actually Aston Proved the Mercedes engine is not slow yesterday , Vettel was competitive in the first and second sectors but was also second fastests on the start finish straight . Their Car changes seems to be working or at least going in the right direction

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBjY5eH8rGo&t=128s

The slightly bigger issue for FIA is we are a 1/3rd of the way into the season now & while all the teams a have scored points , the Gap at the front has Just swapped from Mercedes/ Redbull last year to Redbull/ Ferrari year and it didnt tighten up the teams they are begining to appear further apart .

There may have to be some Rule adjustment next season just not sure what it is , and its even too early to look at .

Frank Bullitt · 13-06-2022 5:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119196865#Comment_119196865

That’s illegal for all teams to do. The seat must be fixed to the tub, if you put it on springs it can act as a form of mass damper and be tuned. Which was banned in 2006 I believe.

Its a simple fix for Merc though, just raise the ride height. But they won’t do that.

AMKC · 13-06-2022 7:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119197322#Comment_119197322

Awe OK. Well maybe the FIA should have a look at that now as the cars are totally different now to then and sure it could be an upgrade for the teams and they would have to explain how it works like all the other upgrades.

Yes Mercedes should do that I agree.

Frank Bullitt · 13-06-2022 9:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119198049#Comment_119198049

I think the other issue would be the feel drivers would lose from not being connected directly to the tub.

I do see this as more of solve for teams to come up with, it can be done after all. We see RB and more recently AM and Alpine tune out the bouncing. So it’s possible.

Of course, Merc are lobbying because they know if they get the suspension in their favour, their concept will work better.

Burkie1203 · 13-06-2022 10:43pm

https://twitter.com/Recznik_/status/1536442728611033091?t=S8sjA6eQM-VoUJrYu78qTg&s=19

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F1 2022 Round 8 - AZERBAIJAN GP

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