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Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

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    #12092
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,762 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119200162#Comment_119200162

    The UK agreed to carve up their own country. It wasn't Varadkar who got played, it was Johnson and the DUP.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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    #12093
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 26,078 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119200224#Comment_119200224

    It's just another poster projecting his own dislike for the Irish government on to every flimsy little thing he can find.

    Varadkar likely had fk all to do with whether that deal got signed or not



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    #12094
    Enzokk
    Registered Users Posts: 5,698 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119200162#Comment_119200162


    It's not unwelcome, it's just wrong. Maybe expand on the grand plan of Johnson and how his deal with Varadkar leads to him reneging on it now with a clear plan and process on how he gets there. But all evidence seems to point to a PM that is out to save his own skin and doing what he can to keep himself in a job, not some other grand plan that involved fooling Varadkar in 2019 for it to come to fruition in 2022.



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    #12095
    I told ya
    Registered Users Posts: 245 ✭✭I told ya


    FWIW, my view is that Johnson needs Brexit, fighting with the EU, refugee crises, etc. to be centre stage, in order to keep the cost of living crises, NHS crises, fuel prices and the likes to the side lines. He probably couldn't care less if the latest Bill gets shot down. It just keeps the pot boiling.

    Off topic, but my view is that he thought the courts would strike down the Rwanda issue and the DM, DT, Express would go into meltdown. Another 'enemy of the people' moment.

    All to deflect from the real problems effecting a sizeable proportion of the UK population.

    After all, Brexit is really a Tory Party civil war.



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    #12096
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    “We either accept the reasonable offer”.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119200227#Comment_119200227

    There is sufficient clarity for you already. We both know that. It’s nice to see the old tactics still being rolled out.



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    #12097
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119200224#Comment_119200224

    You’re rushing the fences. BJ made an offer that “no British PM could ever accept” at a time when he was in desperate need of an election. A wiser head than Varadkar would have taken pause.



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    #12098
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,762 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119200431#Comment_119200431

    Exactly.

    There is no intellectual force behind Conservatism any more. Previously, they were operating from Disraeli's One Nation philosophy and then moved to neoliberalism with Margaret Thatcher. Now, they're on just basic demagoguery and populism. They're not even hiding it either.

    The threats to the protocol are supposed to accomplish what 2016's referendum was supposed to, ie to placate Tory extremists who have been emboldened. If Johnson loses this vote, it doesn't matter. He can just keep banging on and on about it. So will his successor, probably Truss.

    The man is allegedly a historian and yet he fails to see that this can end in only one way, his destruction as it did Cameron, his legacy in tatters and last seen shilling for a putrid investment company. He's eked all the capital he can out of Brexit. It's been done and now the English middle classes must endure the ignominy of being second class citizens in Europe while their M&S struggles to fill its shelves and their Wetherspoons can't find staff as the EU migrants got the message.

    It's almost like a cartoon with a trap being labelled clearly as a trap and yet Tory PM after Tory PM keeps falling for it.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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    #12099
    peter kern
    Registered Users Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭peter kern


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119200238#Comment_119200238

    i guess its fair to say at the end of the day both sides wanted a deal . i dont really think anybody lost or won the point that is being argued.

    at the same time one side has a written agreement the other side knew they sign one part of the treaty in bad faith .



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    #12100
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,762 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119200539#Comment_119200539

    The EU aren't stupid. They have the means to enact serious economic reprisals on the UK if they have to. They'd prefer not to as they're the adults in the room.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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    #12101
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119200298#Comment_119200298

    It’s perfectly correct and the usual and predictable misrepresentation, strawmen, do not change that. Look I understand that FFG people who have given their years to promoting their version of Ireland suddenly are finding out that their admiration for Britain is utterly hollow and that Toryism like Liberalism 100 years ago will shaft anyone to advance British interests.

    The grand plan isn’t Johnson’s. He’s simply an opportunist who has been used for his particular persuasive gifts to advance the project.

    If you want to understand Brexit you should read Dominic Cummings. You will of course have to hear a lot of difficult views. But undoubtedly the best guide to it. Interestingly foreign investment in the UK digital startup market is again the highest in Europe. Despite Brexit. Almost as if the Protocol is just a sideshow



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    #12102
    peter kern
    Registered Users Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭peter kern


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119200572#Comment_119200572

    but you look at this a bit too much from the eu is wining side , as this is actually quite a difficult matter and the uk and eu obviously know this. so yes they can hit them hard in dover and already do in the horizon issue ,but not where the issue is , as it is a very delicate issue. in this matter the eu is for once not totally calling the shots. especially if they want to stay the adult in the room .

    and the uk gov does not really care to hurt itself more. so it is kind of true if the uk got gets one up on the eu , at the cost for many more loses


    and to add both sides are losing and europe is already weaker. so no the eu is not really wining either we are just losing less .



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    #12103
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,524 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119200750#Comment_119200750

    When you say "digital startup market", I hope you don't refer to the various blockchain and crypto companies flooding the overall sector? 'cos if so, that's a bubble waiting to happen. Completely off-topic so keen not to cause too much distraction but being artificially bolstered by an unregulated concept barely managing to justify its existence is a bit of a house of straw.



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    #12104
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,762 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119200779#Comment_119200779

    No, I don't. I look at it from the side of Ireland, both sides of the border. The deal protects NI from the worst of Brexit and prevents a hard border.

    The EU is weaker and stronger. Weaker for having lost a large member, stronger for being free of said member's destructive influence. It is what it is.

    The UK being allowed to undermine the single market cannot and will not be permitted to happen. Peace and prosperity in Europe are worth more than Boris Johnson's inane ambitions.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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    #12105
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    A hobby of mine is to search specific buzzwords and see if the express has been talking about them in the last day.



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    #12106
    rameire
    Registered Users Posts: 4,158 ✭✭✭rameire


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119201609#Comment_119201609

    The word 'Gammon' is banned from their comments sections.

    🌞 3.8kwp, 🌞 Split 2.28S, 1.52E. 🌞 Clonee, Dub.🌞



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    #12107
    retalivity
    Registered Users Posts: 14,300 ✭✭✭✭retalivity


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119201609#Comment_119201609

    Every now and again ill have a look at the express website for a laugh, but it quickly depresses me how barenaked lies pass as news, and it is swallowed up by loads.



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    #12108
    wexfordman2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,554 ✭✭✭wexfordman2


    And spudmuncher, for example is not banned in that racist little rag!


    Makes my blood boil when I see it sold in certain eatablishments and supermarkets over here!!



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    #12109
    54and56
    Registered Users Posts: 7,665 ✭✭✭54and56


    I can't actually believe Niall Patterson (who I generally can't bear listening to) completely skewered Liz Truss on the proposed NIP legislation this morning, she hadn't anything of substance to reply with other than the usual quips, it's well worth a watch. Can't wait to see this debated in Westminster and in the various committee's etc who will systematically dismantle it and the fabrications which underpin it.

    https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1536610745387044868




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    #12110
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119202230#Comment_119202230

    3:20 in. That's Frost and now Truss saying that North South trade is a problem.



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    #12111
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 13,526 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Apparently BoJo is claiming some sort of 'grave peril' that is causing this legislation to be drafted, yet, as the Sky interviewer asked, what is it? NI is doing economically better than the rest of GB, so that's not it. Truss's reply is something about no government in Stormont. Well, that's something the UK government has to make happen with the DUP. I imagine they have ways.


    And wow Truss is some kind of uber-muppet. Bland speaking style, speaking very slowly probably hoping listeners will get bored. Just really bad. Not as much deer in the headlights as the talking empty suit that is Dominic "Where is Calais again?" Raab and whackadoodle Nadine Dorries, but yeesh!



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    #12112
    BlitzKrieg
    Registered Users Posts: 14,685 ✭✭✭✭BlitzKrieg


    We must be in 1914 again for there to be a 'grave peril'.

    If the conservatives want to paint the picture that the anger in the unionist communities in particular is so strong that the UK is once again at the circumstances they were over 100 years ago with unionist threatening civil war against the whole of the UK, then the DUP need to stand up and show that is the case.


    But they wont because we are not in 1914, despite being a bunch of angry boys the reality is if the DUP actually took it to the point of threatening violence their support would evaporate because the truth is the issues with the protocol are really mostly just an inconveniance.



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    #12113
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,836 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119202230#Comment_119202230

    Just think too, Liz Truss is considered a candidate to be the next PM.



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    #12114
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,762 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119202230#Comment_119202230

    Christ, that's painful. Utterly excruciating. She's incapable of answering any of the questions posed, instead just opting for her pre-prepared statements over and over again. I think she fancies herself as Thatcher:

    image.png

    I know someone who worked for her. To put it politely, he rated her intellectual capacity poorly. She just seems to want to climb the pole without doing much by way or work or research.

    They're just openly showing contempt for NI now and not even pretending to hide it. The way she went straight there and just cynically used those thousands of deaths like that for her own benefit is just sickening.

    Her rationale as well, "The text is the problem". It's hardly going to be the feckin font, is it? They've driven out anyone with talent and this is the result. Expect to hear much more about Remainers, Brexit, May and so on.

    We're actually doing this yet again it seems.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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    #12115
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,524 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Her utter lack of charisma or intelligence will never be more neatly summarised than her infamous "pork markets" comment at whatever Tory group lovein it was from fadó. Like the rest of this UK cabinet, she's another grifter and case study for Dunning Kruger



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    #12116
    Working class heroes
    Registered Users Posts: 3,581 ✭✭✭Working class heroes


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119202720#Comment_119202720

    Was that not the one about cheese?

    Racism is now hiding behind the cloak of Community activism.



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    #12117
    54and56
    Registered Users Posts: 7,665 ✭✭✭54and56


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119200162#Comment_119200162

    If by "bearing responsibility for Liverpool" you mean Varadkar should have expected the UK Govt to be systemically mendacious and duplicitous then I think you're using the benefit of perfect hindsight to find Varadkar guilty and by implication all other 26 EU heads of state who up until then thought the UK was a nation of honour and principle which upheld agreements it entered into.

    Shame on them all I guess and bravo to you for having such foresight and calling out at the time how the UK didn't intend honouring the NIP and were agreeing to it in bad faith in the full knowledge that at some time convenient to them a short time later they would stoke unionist unrest to a point where they could leverage it to unilaterally rip up the NIP under the pretext of "saving" the GFA.

    Don't suppose you have any posts from Oct 2019 which demonstrate your world class foresight?



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    #12118
    54and56
    Registered Users Posts: 7,665 ✭✭✭54and56


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119199635#Comment_119199635

    Here ya go Kermit, the EU's position is articulated in nice succinct fashion for all to see. It's a long game, there's no need to get over excited and sucked into playing BoJo & Co's game of distraction. Time and economic heft are on the EU's side, just as they've always been and likely always will be as the UK becomes more and more economically isolated, politically marginalised and irrelevant.

    image.png




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    #12119
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 19,070 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119202230#Comment_119202230

    What even was that?



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    #12120
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119203294#Comment_119203294

    LOL. Now I wonder if anyone with any grasp of history and knowledge of BJ being a liar before he became PM and who had any grasp of the British parliamentary logjam and who understood Brexit as a relaunch of an inveterately aggressive and acquisitive state with a reputation as Perfidious Albion onto a global stage with a banner of being buccaneering held aloft, I wonder if any of those existed? You’d expect the leader of a country to be better at it than an internet randomer? Wouldn’t you? LOL

    Your problem and it is a problem is that you can’t see the UK for what it is, what it was and what it wants to be. Like a lot more in FFG you have some idea of what Redmond felt like when he too was played for a fool. At least this time it didn’t take 30,000 Irish dead to educate you.



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    #12121
    54and56
    Registered Users Posts: 7,665 ✭✭✭54and56


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119203479#Comment_119203479

    So you didn't have any of the insight at the time which you can share with us that you now claim should have been blindingly obvious to all and sundry.

    It's so easy being a 20:20 hindsight "I told you so" person, you can never be wrong and you can blame everyone else for getting it wrong.

    BTW, it wasn't a question of trusting BoJo, he is and was all the things you refer to but the agreement was entered into by sovereign nations and drafted to be in effect long after BoJo & Co are an embarrassing footnote of history.

    Perhaps 27 EU nations were wrong to assume the UK as a nation should be treated as a serious trustworthy country even if the transitory PM couldn't.



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