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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,462 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Murray and Casey are not there on form at all. Any one of the Ulster or Connacht lads ought to be going instead.

    Don't begrudge Earls going, but would've been nice to see Moore be rewarded. Burns should be the no 2 OH on current form.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,532 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    Coaches don't pick on form. They pick based on what quality of performance they think the players will probably deliver.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,462 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    They must be watching different games then, if they think Murray and Casey have delivered this season.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,712 ✭✭✭Shehal


    Casey's been good in a average (at best) Munster team, Murray on the other hand should be nowhere near the team. I would have picked Doak over him for instance.





  • Murray being on a central contract was always going to go. Casey has suffered similar to Ben Healy. Both played well earlier in the season when they were starting games. Their appearance off the bench when it appeared they were trying to play Carbery back into form have been far from spectacular.

    Farrell doesn't seem to have any time for Cooney or Marmion and when the second in command at both provinces, aren't pushing ahead of them, that can be some of the reasoning I would imagine. Although, that doesn't happen with Murray/Casey. I can see Casey push ahead of Murray next season at Munster at least.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,532 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    I'd like to have seen Josh Murphy in, and they could maybe have taken along another loosehead to try to grow the depth, but it's a pretty good squad overall. It's such a shame about Baloucoune, though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,229 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Delighted to see Casey get the nod, be some test for him



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,581 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Cian Healy! He's done! He offers very little. Delighted for Loughman. It's good to see someone who's bee around for a while getting an opportunity. Murray is just so poor. He's not up to high tempo rugby. His performance against Ulster may have been his worst ever!

    Prendergast and Coombes could be a nice pairing. They are both knocking on the door.



  • Administrators Posts: 53,832 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Baloucoune with some really terrible luck with that injury.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,169 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Losing Kelleher is a blow. Sheehan has developed a lot as a player this season, but the former is still better.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,169 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Delighted for Joe McCarthy. He looks to have all the goods to bea great test player. Good jumper, very physical in contact over both sides of the ball and has very good hands.

    Also, it seems that a decision has been made a out Ryan Baird's best position. Since his return he has started mostly as a backrow for Leinster and he's listed as a backrow in the Ireland squad.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,462 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Not convinced that Baird is worth his spot at 6 with Leinster, let alone Ireland.



  • Administrators Posts: 53,832 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Doak hasn't played much for Ulster at the business end of the season.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,989 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Happy enough with that squad. Lots of guys with minimal test experience.

    Think Burns might be unlucky but H Byrne obviously made an impression during previous camps and that's what matters to these coaches.

    Surprised by Loughman but fair play to him.

    Otherwise no surprises really. Injuries probably resolved a couple of the tough calls, especially in the back three



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,388 ✭✭✭GiftofGab


    excuse my ignorance as I haven't watched as much rugby as I used to...but what's the logic in bringing some of the older folks such as Sexton. Wasn't the summer tour traditionally for experimenting with fringe players?? Then 6 nations was the best team available with autumn internationals a mix of both.



  • Administrators Posts: 53,832 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    It's cause it's NZ.

    Summer tour is experimental only in Lions years. When we go to NZ / Australia / South Africa we take it seriously.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Watching Cooney and Burns' performances in big games vs Munster and the Stormers and watching Murray and Carbery 'attempting' whatever the hell it is they've been trying to do all season, it's crazy that the latter two are the ones in the Ireland and the former two aren't.

    If there was a test match tomorrow and it was between the two, I'm picking Cooney/Burns over Murray/Carbery every day of the week.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Front Row - Loughman is a surprise inclusion. I’d have had Wycherley in ahead of him. But he has good ball handling skills so that may have helped. Otherwise nothing to see there. We do have a short to medium term issue with depth at 1 and 3.

    Second Row - Treadwell an interesting selection. Kleyn is the other obvious contender but Farrell does seem to like Treadwell. It’s good to see McCarthy getting the nod too. He’s had a stellar few months.

    Back Row - Baird in as a back row is interesting. Both Leinster and Ireland seem keen to use his athleticism in some way but he still needs to develop that bit of dog, even if playing in the back row. But hard to see any issues with that selection.

    Scrum Half - I think Murray’s form has been better than some describe. He’s been playing in a dysfunctional team and inside a 10 who simply cannot seem to control proceedings at all. For most of the season though Murray has been good so no issues with that call. Hopefully the different environment can bring out the best in him. Nobody else is calling for inclusion either. Cooney shot himself in the foot with his comments on Sexton, Doak isn’t getting much of a look in at Ulster now, McGraths passing isn’t good enough and Farrell has clearly never rated Marmion.

    Out Half - Burns not being called up is disappointing. He’s gotten a good run of form lately and is clearly playing better than Carbery or Harry Byrne. But at this stage HB is a selection for the future (not a totally bad thing) and Carbery is a sunk cost. You have to wonder when the latter will be good enough or deemed to no longer be worth investing in.

    Centres: Frawley is another interesting call, especially ahead of Moore. But his ability to cover 10 probably gets him the nod. Aki needs to find some form as he’s been awful since the 6Ns. Like Murray, hopefully the Irish environment can bring that out.

    Back Three: No major calls here really at all. You’d think that if Balacoune was fit that he’d take either JOB or Larmours spot. Otherwise not really any talking points here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,808 ✭✭✭b.gud


    Haven't seen it mentioned elsewhere but Connacht Senior Coach Peter Wilkins will join the National Coaching Group for the duration of the Tour to assist in team preparation



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,420 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Murray and Healy shouldn't be on the plane, their performances this year are not up to scratch and are not likely to improve before the WC

    Carbery is probably on a last chance saloon deal, where he'll be given a shot with a full strength Irish team in a full intensity test game and see if he's worthy of continuing with to the WC or if we need to move on to someone else.

    Harry Byrne has done absolutey nothing to deserve getting this opportunity other than possibly wearing a blue jersey. Being 3rd choice for his own club, only 4 starts at 10 in the whole season,



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,649 ✭✭✭arsebiscuits1


    Welp.

    My Molony prediction was totally incorrect and Treadwell gets the nod ahead of him.

    Disappointed for the fella

    But I'll accept the decision



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,532 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    Farrell doesn't pick the Leinster team though.

    Some of his decisions to back players who weren't first choice at their respective provinces have worked out really well. JGP, obviously, and now O'Toole is coming good.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Casey is getting a bad rap in here. He's had a good season and Munster are always much better when he's on. 7 tries this season too.

    Murray is awful and should be nowhere near the squad. Everyone knew that giving him a central contract a few months ago was bound to blow up in our faces and here we are. We're now stuck with him all the way through to the RWC no matter how poorly he's playing and better others are. Another regime where it's harder to get dropped from the Ireland team than to get onto it. Just Irish Rugby repeating the same mistakes every RWC cycle.

    Murray/Carbery are the worst halfback pairing from provinces



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Yeah Farrell has been happy to select guys who aren’t first choice for their province ahead of the guys who are. Loughman, Treadwell and JGP being the obvious examples. Byrne was behind Carty prior to this so we’re effectively talking about 4th choice 10 so is it really one to get bothered by?

    Burns can feel aggrieved though. At least with Byrne you think that he’s being selected because of his potential to be a top class 10. So investing in him now is forward planning and not totally a bad thing. At some point Carbery needs to either come good or be cut loose because after a while potential needs to translate. And we’re still waiting there after a good few (albeit injury disrupted) years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 885 ✭✭✭mun1


    Agreed, You could add sexton and Healy to that list as well . At least Ryan has age on his side.

    Well past their best but can’t be shifted from the squad



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Sexton is still good though, as is POM. No issues them being there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 726 ✭✭✭durthacht


    Please tell me that he's not the guy who coaches defence in Connacht...



  • Registered Users Posts: 885 ✭✭✭mun1


    Not a surprising squad , given where we are at . Must target the first test or else it could get ugly



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    This is gas. Farrell has moved Porter to LH, moved Kelleher and Sheehan into hooker, looked to involve O’Toole in the squads, is bringing in Loughman, looks set to give McCarthy a first cap, has regularly involved Baird and Timoney, dropped POM to the bench to make way for Doris, is bringing in Prendergast, promoted JGP to first choice ahead of Murray despite not being first choice at his province, given Casey game time, is giving Harry Byrne a shot based purely off potential, has brought in Hume and is now bringing in Frawley and has actively handed out caps to Lowe, Hansen, Lowry and Balacoune with JOB now getting a shot as well. But sure yeah, we’re being conservative and not giving guys a chance.

    EDIT: I forgot to mention Connors and Keenan in there too.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10




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