Father and son die at Isle of man TTs

Setback spectators from roadside where possible. Allow a few areas where spectators can get right close to action yet still be 100 percent protected via barrier positioning.

Place large stands on inside of bends where the possibility of biker flying into crowd is near impossible.

Ban metal crowd control barriers from roadside. There are only suited to control airport queues. Proper secure barriers should be installed to protect both rider and spectator.

Have no roadside spectators immediately after jumps, bumps or on outside of bends.

Do not rely on spectators to wave down competitors when accidents happen. It's one of the highest speed events in the world, get their act together and get a good marshalling and flag system in place. I realise it's a long course but you cannot run this without using all available safety systems.

Undertake a major refit of barrier systems in the large viewing areas where barriers can be easily then reinstalled year on year in a safe manner.

It's quite a safe sport for the spectators I thought, comparatively at least? There has been a few incidents in recent years but in most cases, the facilities were found to have been setup incorrectly versus their own requirements as far as I recall.

The bikes are getting faster and faster each year and the PPE / trackside safety equipment can't keep up but even halving the speeds again and people would likely end up still dying.

Re the motivation, Guy Martin explains it as when you've got used to driving flat out at 200mph on a narrow winding country road, everything else is tame in comparison. He reckons him going on a roller coaster is about as exciting as riding a lawnmower to you and me so these guys are hooked to the adrenaline and can't get it from much else!

Fantastically skilled and brave riders, I like watching it on TV but I've been twice and while the atmosphere around the place is great if you're into bikes, the actual spectating for me gets boring after half an hour as it's very repetitive (although still amazing to see)!

Marshall posts are open to the track in the direction opposite to the direction of travel. All motorsport is like this.

Residents standing on footpath outside their front door is not good enough. Surely they can agree something to prevent random movements of residents during race.

Re crash predictability, of course bike can came back across road but it's not going to come backwards against the direction of travel for example so a raised viewing area inside a corner is probably 1000 times safer than viewing from side of road after a bend.

How would you feel about a hypothetical compromise proposal whereby they close the road for the racers, but forbid spectators. I'm not asking you about the logistics of that. I'm asking about you, as a racer, who doesn't care about the spectators. You'd still get to race.

There is a "community" around it though - no? And those lads would be idolised within that community? That was my understanding.

Imagine the uproar if horse racing was going to be banned.

Whatever about the riders knowing the risks and choosing to go ahead and race anyway, that is fair enough, but the "no-one forced the spectators to attend" argument is crazy. That is like like running a dangerous building site, flouting every safety regulation and someone has an accident and dies and you say to the judge at the inquest, "yeah well I didn't force him to work for me, he could have got a different safer job if he wanted".

Spectators might not know the risks, they might be just casual observers who came up or happened to be in the area. You cannot expect all sorts of random spectators up be aware of and understand the risks. It would be unreasonable to expect them to.

And as for relying on spectators to wave down riders in the event of an accident. That is frankly preposterous and if that is a thing, then it is a complete and total abdication of responsibility with respect to the race organisers in terms of having adequate marshalling and communication.

The safety of the spectators and circuit is shambolic at the TT. I think if a bad accident happened and a bike ploughed into a crowd of spectators there would be absolute hell to pay in the court cases to follow and everyone in authority would be steamrolled to hell and back over it and the TT would be either axed or massively cut back in speed, scale and risks.

• The race organisers would be done for not taking all reasonably practicable measures to eliminate or minimise risk to spectators or the public (wire crowd control barriers on the side of a race circuit ffs) Spectators on outsides of turns etc.
• The local authority would be absolutely roasted red raw for allowing an event to proceed on a public road (albeit closed) which posed such a danger, and not only that, but allowing such an event when they are a competent authority with respect to road safety matters and allowing it knowing full well that it was a massive danger to the public.

I think the nature and scale of the TT is such that it would be practically impossible to control it enough and make it safe. It would require an unweildlly amount of marshalling and safety equipment.

I believe this sort of thing belongs on a purpose build racing circuit where safety features particular to racing are designed in from the outset. Not on a public road network of varyiable quality and age whose primary purpose is as a public road, not a raceway.

The thing with these things is, it is all fine and grand until something bad happens, and then it is not fine nor grand anymore and the families and authorities go on a witch hunt to blame someone and they will nail everyone they find along the way for each and every failing and non-compliance they can uncover. Well, that is how the Irish HSA work anyway and I imagine the UK HSE would be fairly similar.

We often hear about the riders who are killed. But what we don't hear much about is riders who are left with catastrophic life changing disabilities which perhaps causes even more suffering and trauma to their poor families who have to straw feed and bed bath them for the next 20 or 30 years.

I think the riders not only have no regard for their own safety which is one thing, but they also seem to have no respect or compassion for their families who will be either left without them or be forced to put their own lives on hold to provide them with 24 hour intensive care for decades to come as a result of their injuries as a result of their selfish quest for adrenaline thrills.

There was two spectators killed back in 2007 and a marshal back in 2005 but other than that I don't see where you're getting this huge concern over spectator safety from?

Yes all true but what you describe is circuit racing which also exists.

Road racing is mad by definition but any possible improvements should be made to remove obvious risks

I know and I think that is where bike racing should stay.

The culture around the TT is mental. I just watched a youtube of fatal crash at a place called the Raven pub where a rider still airborne after coming over a jump missed the road when landing and ploughed head first into the gable wall of the pub which is right on the roadside. Paramedics and marshals came out, pulled the bike away and then strechered the rider off the road over to the side road junction at the gable where he fatally impacted hardly 5 minutes beforehand.

The most baffling thing was, once the paramedics had finished with him, the crowd of probably a hundred or more onlookers gave a round of applause and just went back to watching the race. There were children nearby looking on and everything.

The whole thing is a bizzare culture.

it's not for you. you have made that abundantly clear.

The other thing that could happen is that witnesses to a crash could claim compensation from the race organisers for psychological trauma. Claiming as a witness even though you were not personally involved in an accident and are not physically injured is a well established thing and has happened.

Someone claiming this could argue that the race organisers did not take all reasonably practicable measures to limit the dangers to particiapants even when they clearly knew that the dangers existed and that there could be ways, albeit costly, to reduce the dangers but went ahead with the race anyway. And that this amounted to neglicence because they knowingly allowed a situation where gruesome fatal accidents could occur in full view of spectators and did not take any advance action to eliminate or reduce that risk.

If a particularly horrific accident occurred and a claim was laid by a few spectators, it could set a precedent that would herald the beginning of the end for this barbaric spectacle.

5 died at the event? RIP

Some are so passionate about their love for it, hard to stop them pursuing

100%, absolutely no-one attends the TT by accident.

but the court case wouldn't be here, it would be in the Isle of Man.

It's not an argument, it is my opinion. But hey opinions are like arm pits. Everyone has them, but most of them stink. :-)😁

The Isle of Man has a separate legal system to the UK. They're not going to kill a major event on the island over some bullshit claim that somebody somehow managed to attend the TT races with no knowledge that deaths happens practically every year.