Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

RichieRich_89 · 14-06-2022 8:04pm

Didn't Murray come on and deliver just what was needed to see out some match relatively recently? Was it the England 6N game?

Madeoface · 14-06-2022 8:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119201012#Comment_119201012

Why are you pushing this false notion jgp is not leinsters first choice 9. Who played 9 in all the important knockout games this year for leinster? Jgp.

He'd an injury back in November too iirc which got mcgrath back into the ireland setup.

You don't like him fair enough, but he's overtaken mcgrath. Objectively he's better than Murray now but in his prime Murray was the better 9.

Frawley at 10 please. As a leinster fan I still don't get the HB thing.

14-06-2022 8:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119202812#Comment_119202812

Sorry, but how can you honestly say that Harry Byrne has had a good Ireland performance?

Was it in the 26 minutes he played against the USA or was it the 30 minutes against Argentina?

This picking on potential bullshit drives me mad. International honours shouldn't be dished out on how good you think someone could be, form should be the deciding factor. There's no way a fella with three hundred and fifty odd minutes at outhalf and 4 starts in the past season should be going anywhere near an international squad.

Billy Burns has played over twice as many minutes as Harry Byrne this season, including knockout European and Domestic rugby. Byrne has 1 European appearance (18 minutes against Montpellier in 2020) to his name.

Ben Healy has 10 starts this season, including 3 in the European rugby. Jack Crowley even has more starts and more European rugby than Harry Byrne this season.

I'd be disgusted if I was either of those 3 mentioned.

Teferi · 14-06-2022 8:17pm

Dunno why some people suspect this might be last chance saloon for Carbery. I think it will be post-World Cup at the earliest or maybe even require a change of coach to see him dropped out of a squad altogether. Also reading some controversy around Murray's selection but I don't see it? Presuming we bring 3 scrum halves to the World Cup, every scrum half not named Conor Murray in Ireland is playing for the spot behind Jamison Gibson-Park. Murray's position as the finisher is pretty much set in stone at this stage and I'm fine with that - I think he offers something different to every other scrumhalf and can help us change our game up if needed in the final quarter, not to mention experience & leadership.

Largely happy enough with that squad. I'd potentially have brought an additional 9/10 and 1/3 but it's not that big a deal - they'd have been fringe characters in the squad in any case. It might come back to bite Faz in the arse if the squad ends up absolutely wrecked mid-way through the series, but he has credit in the bank.

Slight elephant in the room for me when it comes to a man not named in the squad: The IRFU co-funding Zebo's contract last year now seems like an even bigger waste than I suspected. He's made one(?) squad this year and didn't get any caps - not a clue why IRFU money was spent to bring him home if they weren't going to take a look at him.

sprucemoose · 14-06-2022 8:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119203175#Comment_119203175

agreed with most but with zebo, hes been injured for large parts of the season and never really got into a good run of form. hes injured now too i think?

14-06-2022 8:32pm

I think the whole IRFU co-funding thing is much ado about nothing. At the end of the day, they co-fund the majority of professional player salaries.

RichieRich_89 · 14-06-2022 8:36pm

I like Zebo a lot. He's a superb finisher as a winger, and an excellent playmaker as a fullback (and really secure under the high ball).

But even if you don't rate him he's still a crowd-pleaser. His presence will likely increase revenue from ticket sales. So it could make financial sense from that perspective for the IRFU.

tooka · 14-06-2022 8:41pm

How is Cooney not going? He is a good player and also a very good kicker. I think he deserves to go with Gibson park and Casey.

also carberry should be going but as a 15 , Healy, harry byrne and sexton should be the tens.

I think sexton and Murray are in the 23, we will lose the series. It’s quite obvious from the latter part of the year sexton and Murray are both finished.

Podge_irl · 14-06-2022 8:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119203337#Comment_119203337

Its quite clear from the entire season that Sexton is far and away our best 10...

tooka · 14-06-2022 8:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119203348#Comment_119203348

Regardless he is finished physically at the top level. it’s hard to accept and and it makes a semi final at the World Cup a very tough ask.

what’s needed now is Healy and harry byrne to get plenty of game time at 10

Madeoface · 14-06-2022 8:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119203337#Comment_119203337

You'd hope Murray and Sexton are there to close out games....or finish games anyway, closing usually means protecting a lead.. The two aul lads will be targeted mercilessly and I'd worry for JS in particular.

Having said that JS is still a leader and should be down there imo. When he's on the pitch there is a noticeable uptick in leinsters performance. Ireland too. Hence him and POM needed.

Cooney unlucky but his game management against the stormers in the last qtr was poor as a neutral watching. Maybe the forwards were done but he kicked the ball away in the last couple of minutes when ball retention was needed. Madness...Plus he had a cut at the Ireland setup recently enough...which is probably the main reason.

Podge_irl · 14-06-2022 8:58pm

In what was is he finished physically at the top level and what makes this so clear from the latter part of the season?

I, and I imagine most people, would rather more options at 10 but they don't exist. But I'm pleasantly surprised by how well Sexton is continuing to play. Its not just that he is easily the best option, he's also still very, very good.

tooka · 14-06-2022 9:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119203460#Comment_119203460

sexton should go as a mentor for the other 10s

la Rochelle game showed that when a game becomes a physical all out war, sexton cannot keep up with it physically, not the first time this has happened sexton.

he is finished and that’s rough for us, but he is finished

molloyjh · 14-06-2022 9:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119203129#Comment_119203129

When he was first selected for Ireland he wasn’t first choice at Leinster. I’ve no idea where you’ve gotten the idea that I don’t like him from or that I think Murray is better. It’s an odd conclusion to draw from what I said because neither are remotely true and I haven’t said either. As a Leinster fan I’m a big fan of his.

molloyjh · 14-06-2022 9:19pm

I see the “I’d worry about Sexton getting injured” guff is back. Gotta love international windows.

14-06-2022 9:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119203529#Comment_119203529

Sexton will retire soon but I have no idea what you're talking about regarding physicality

tooka · 14-06-2022 9:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119203594#Comment_119203594

Not worried about sexton getting injured, he is finished physically at this level and the coming tour will show that.

Podge_irl · 14-06-2022 9:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119203529#Comment_119203529

This is utter garbage. Please point out even one example from that game of Sexton not keeping up with it physically.

Sexton played well in that game and by far his biggest error was trying to play the ball in the 22 instead of walloping it out. What on earth that has to do with being "physically finished" is beyond me.

tooka · 14-06-2022 9:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119203606#Comment_119203606

Physically sexton is finished at the very top level, when he plays against a very physical team the game bypasses him and you only see him when it’s penalty time

molloyjh · 14-06-2022 9:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119203622#Comment_119203622

This just isn’t true at all and I’ve no clue where you’re getting it from. It’s just a strange assertion that has no basis in reality.

14-06-2022 9:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119203645#Comment_119203645

Heard it here first folks

leakyboots · 14-06-2022 10:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119203305#Comment_119203305

Even as a Munster fan I really don't think 'the kids are mad about Zebo, he'll get more bums on seats if we fund his return to Munster' was a factor in his resigning. He's been worth the fee though, he's had a good (9 tries in 13 matches if you're just looking at that metric) but injury/covid interrupted season. Maybe was a tad unlucky to not get a run in previous international meetups but the latter end of the season didn't give him a chance to make a squad.

I'd be surprised if his Ireland days aren't done, unless he has a blistering run of form from the off in the coming season, but Haley has upped his game at Munster at 15 and internationally Lowry and now Moore are tearing it up also at fullback behind Keenan and there's an amount of wingers vying for places. Still has loads to offer at Munster, probably the best finisher we've had along with Earls and Dougie.

VayNiice · 14-06-2022 11:03pm

Interesting to hear a lot of kiwis don't fancy the ABs chances for this series. They understandably see this as a relatively weak AB squad with a poor coach.

While most Irish fans will delighted with one test win!

Downlinz · 14-06-2022 11:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119203460#Comment_119203460

Sexton had a pretty big brainfart around the 60 minute mark against La Rochelle where he refused to kick and attempted but lacked the pace to evade the tackler which started a sequence which resulted in a penalty to La Rochelle and a pretty big momentum swing which would ultimately cost Leinster the game.

That was a big "this guy is looking old moment".

Worse still he needed to be rested the next week and only had the fitness to bench the week after which also turned out costly to Leinster.

I know Sexton is a legend to a lot of fans but with a bit rationality I think most people can see that this is a problem. He's a good player in the sense that he can deliver a big 50 minutes if he gets to rest the week before and the week after. I don't think that's good enough for test rugby.

The guy will be 38 at the world cup FFS, it's crazy anyone is even debating this. Sexton is finished, he's done and if Farrell hasn't realised that then only heartache awaits at the World Cup.

Podge_irl · 14-06-2022 11:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119204276#Comment_119204276

That was a big "this guy is looking old moment".

Its almost the exact opposite. It was a terrible decision, but it is the kind of decision normally made by inexperienced players which is why its so irritating he did it. Also he was fit to start against the Bulls, but management (incorrectly imo) made the decision not to start him. You don't put players with questionable fitness on the bench, you start them and take them off.

The guy will be 38 at the world cup FFS, it's crazy anyone is even debating this. Sexton is finished, he's done and if Farrell hasn't realised that then only heartache awaits at the World Cup.

As long as he remains head and shoulders better than anyone else available then this is the situation we have to face. He's also clearly not finished - he is still playing very, very well. Had he not been unable to play against France we would be looking at an Irish GS team as far as I'm concerned.

I never thought that Sexton going to the world cup was a live option but A) he is playing far better than I expected still at this point and B) no one else is playing anywhere near as well so that is where we are.

Madeoface · 14-06-2022 11:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119203560#Comment_119203560

My bad. I read it originally as having a pop at jgp.

Dubinusa · 15-06-2022 1:49am

If Sexton is finished physically at this level, it falls on Joey C. Not an enticing prospect!

Sexton has a little more in the tank. At 36, he's still better than anyone else we have. By a long way! It could change by next year. But, I think Sexton will travel to the world cup even if he's just benching.

tooka · 15-06-2022 7:53am

Sexton was not fit enough to start against the bulls and that is why he did not start and that is why nobody can explain why he did not

management are not going to say we did not start him as sexton physically needs to be managed over a year

johnny sexton has been brilliant for Ireland and there is no doubt in my mind He is one of our best of all time and he was a true world class player. that drop kick against France, unreal leaderships skills and mental strength.

but time waits for no man,

sexton Is finished at the top level and the best thing he can do for Leinster and Ireland is retire after the tour of New Zealand.

he is just too old for an out half and Over the next 2 years his decline will be even more alarming.

sydthebeat · 15-06-2022 8:01am

Surely its up to all the other available out halves to take his jersey?

It doesn't say much to their quality if they cannot oust a player who is "too old for an out half" and "finished at the top level"

15-06-2022 8:44am

I said it in a different thread but will repeat here; I know (as a matter of fact) that Sexton is hitting the same fitness markers this season as he has for the last 5 - 10 years (speed, agility, mobility, power). His physical condition is not an issue, albeit I fully recognise that in the 35 - 40 age bracket it's possible for that to change relatively quickly.

It is not unusual for Leinster to bench him in the URC (even at knock out stages, which they have done before) and it isn't necessarily about his capacity to play. It makes total sense for Leinster to be looking at long term continuity at 10, and preparing the likes of Ross Byrne for knock out rugby.

I would imagine that all the provinces are anticipating gaps in their roster for next season as I imagine playing minutes in the lead up to the world cup will be heavily managed. I would say the NZ tour is also playing a factor.

People have been predicting Sexton's demise for around 8 years now. George Hook was calling for him to retire in what - 2015? When he isn't up to it, the decision will be made for him, but I see no significant evidence of it yet, bar a subdued and uncharacteristically indecisive performance against LaRochelle.

Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Comments