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Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XII (The Byrne Supremacy)

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    #9452
    Dubinusa
    Registered Users Posts: 8,581 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    It's also important to recognize that La Rochelle scored the winning try when the carrier fell! Him falling , presented the chance to go over the line as Ringrose was moving to where the play would have been!

    If Ringrose makes the tackle.... who knows. But, La Rochelle were the deserved winners.



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    #9453
    stephen_n
    Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119198129#Comment_119198129

    Not necessarily, though if we are still having the same issues next season. Then I’d be asking questions of his abilities.



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    #9454
    Dubinusa
    Registered Users Posts: 8,581 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Next season, I know, it's early, I hope to see Milne push through. Even if he's at a urc level, it would help, imo. Same thing with Clarkson, some more opportunities for him to bed in. I have no clue as to how good they're going to be but, I'm hopeful that they are going to be good back ups.

    It would be nice to see if Deeny can stake a claim, or Charlie Ryan.



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    #9455
    Clegg
    Registered Users Posts: 17,172 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Andrew Goodman has been confirmed as a new assistant coach for next season.

    https://twitter.com/leinsterrugby/status/1536609020152356864?t=5PX9uPuzuSG2EM_rZvJb2Q&s=09




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    #9456
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,361 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    Has he been coaching elsewhere? Always liked him When he was here originally, nice steady Eddie when he played.

    Post edited by salmocab on


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    #9457
    WeleaseWoderick
    Registered Users Posts: 1,443 ✭✭✭WeleaseWoderick


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119199885#Comment_119199885

    He was backs coach for the Crusaders so looks to be a nice bit of business getting him in.



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    #9458
    Clegg
    Registered Users Posts: 17,172 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Goodman retired from pro rugby the year after he left Leinster and took an assistant coach role at Tasman, before taking over as head and then moving on to assistant coach at the Crusaders.

    He has a decent CV all things considered. Hopefully he'll do good work at Leinster.



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    #9459
    RichieRich_89
    Registered Users Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    I like that thing the Crusaders do where there are two longish passes and then a guy running an angle back against the grain. It's effective at breaking a defence. Hopefully we'll see some of that.



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    #9460
    RichieRich_89
    Registered Users Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    https://www.the42.ie/leinster-bulls-urc-6-5788217-Jun2022/

    I think I must be watching different games to Cullen if he thinks Leinster are playing all-singing, all-dancing rugby and oppositition teams are playing "squeeze" rugby.

    La Rochelle attacked with far more width than Leinster did, and the Bulls were more intelligent in how they went about attacking close to the tryline. Leinster were going for pick and goes whereas the Bulls actually passed to where the space was for the Canan Moodie dropped ball no try.

    Lancaster implemented the picking and going near the line strategy as a solution to shortcomings that became apparent in the 2017 semi loss to the Scarlets. But now that there are teams in the league Leinster can't bully they'll have to come up with a more cerebral solution.



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    #9461
    Exclamation Marc
    Registered Users Posts: 12,026 ✭✭✭✭Exclamation Marc


    Leo voted URC Coach of the Season (voted for by fellow coaches).

    https://twitter.com/URCOfficial/status/1536680297214926856?t=Qr1w-Vkgpe6aq3OpvSaSlw&s=19




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    #9462
    durthacht
    Registered Users Posts: 726 ✭✭✭durthacht


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119201018#Comment_119201018

    Congratulations to Leo.

    I really don't understand people on here irrationally refusing to give him any credit - it's just so childish.



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    #9463
    RichieRich_89
    Registered Users Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    How can he win that when is team gets knocked out in the semis despite having the highest quality squad and the team is coached by someone else anyway?

    Mind-bottling.



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    #9464
    Itxa
    Registered Users Posts: 260 ✭✭Itxa


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119201018#Comment_119201018

    It depends what they think is good coaching (and an awful lot of them aren't good coaches). Is it bringing in talent or creating talent. You could argue Leo as a coach is a product of the Leinster system. Surely his abilities as a coach are directly affected by the finances available to him. Anyone with a squad of 70 players + dev contracts can pull players from that pool and win. The question is at the high end of the tournaments they are in can he outthink his opponent and the answer on many occasions over the past 4 years has been - No.



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    #9465
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119196903#Comment_119196903

    I think you’re nearly there. Personally I reckon leadership is the issue. When we won European titles previously we did so with guys like Isa and Leo. Guys who were cool, calm and collected all the time. They could settle players down and calm them when things weren’t going right.

    Sexton has always been a guy who is good at putting pressure on players to maintain standards etc. Thats a really important role. But we also need someone capable of relieving the pressure if it gets too much as well. I’m not sure we have that right now. And so when the pressure comes on, the captain only adds to it and we start making mistakes. And we start compounding mistakes with more mistakes.

    In both of the games we lost in the last few weeks we won the collisions so physicality absolutely isn’t an issue. We should have won both games but errors on our part at crucial moments cost us. We need to learn how to play in those games without making (as many of) those errors.



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    #9466
    Dubinusa
    Registered Users Posts: 8,581 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Congratulations to Leo! His win percentage is really outstanding. Superb D.O.R and hopefully gets promoted into the national set up!



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    #9467
    Exclamation Marc
    Registered Users Posts: 12,026 ✭✭✭✭Exclamation Marc


    Conor O'Brien leaving the club. Shame that he never hit his potential because of injury.



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    #9468
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119197109#Comment_119197109

    Guess who's favourites with the bookies for next year



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    #9469
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,962 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119197275#Comment_119197275

    Leinster were under pretty much zero pressure for the two biggest mistakes in the HEC final (the failure to clear the ball and touching it as it went into touch). They created the pressure on themselves.

    LAR went into that game with a gameplan to completely disrupt Leinster's flow with persistent infringing in midfield and it worked. Personally I think Leinster should have gone to the corner when the ref just didn't look interested in warning or yellow carding them to force the issue more. But it was leadership/mental issues that lost that game, not an inability to deal with physicality.



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    #9470
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 10,489 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    We drove them back multiple times in defense. There was one sequence where they started inside the 22 and ended up on the 50. Physicality was not an issue at all.



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    #9471
    RichieRich_89
    Registered Users Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    You can highlight one or two mistakes, but if Leinster had really been the better team then they would have recovered from those moments that went against them. La Rochelle score a try off the lineout after the JOB touch and the Sexton getting caught in possession incident, yeah? Why isn't Leinster's maul defence good enough to stop their drive? Why isn't the defensive lineout jumping good enough to pick off the throw? If those particular mistakes hadn't happened I have a feeling we'd just be highlighting others in their stead. The simple fact is Leinster weren't good enough to close out the game.

    Would the Bulls have been highlighting little errors that gave Leinster 5m lineouts if they had lost? No-one from their side is talking about whatever incidents led to Leinster getting those 5m lineouts because the Bulls were good enough to regain the momentum.



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    #9472
    Dubinusa
    Registered Users Posts: 8,581 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    It's all washed away now! No sense in analyzing this last month to death. We were on the wrong end of a couple of big matches! Regroup, reload and prepare for next year!



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    #9473
    RichieRich_89
    Registered Users Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119203322#Comment_119203322

    And if the same sort of thing happens in the play-offs next season after looking really good in the regular season? What then?



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    #9474
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,845 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119203048#Comment_119203048
    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119203081#Comment_119203081

    IMO this is wishful thinking.

    Yes, Leinster made some unforced errors. But La Rochelle winning the physical battle allowed them to capitalise on those errors. The game turned on the Sexton / Keenan mess, after this the La Rochelle forwards stepped it up and Leinster basically couldn't get the ball back (ok, you managed to score a penalty). It's not that you were losing massive metres in contact, or getting sat down in tackles, they weren't literally running over the top of you in embarrassing ways, it's just they were relentlessly able to keep going because the Leinster forwards couldn't get a grip of the game.

    Ok, you can say that for the maul try any team that manages to set a maul well can score that try, and that's a fair comment. But the last try was IMO a direct result of them getting the upper hand in the physical battle. The way it was scored in the end was fortuitous, but the fact they were even in a position to score it was all down to their sheer hard work.

    They kept Leinster to 0 tries. This is remarkable.

    All Leinster are short is 1 big mean unit in the pack. Moloney and Ryan is not an elite pairing. Ryan is, IMO, a bit too nice. He's a technical player (and an exceptional one at that) rather than a brute, and Moloney doesn't bring enough of the brutishness to cover for it. The Leinster style these days seems to be a 15 man game where everyone can play nice rugby, good ball skills, pretty mobile, but I think to get to the next step you need to sacrifice some of that for a bit more of the basics.

    My 2c anyway.



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    #9475
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,962 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    They kept Leinster to 0 tries. This is remarkable.

    Remarkable and I think poor approach from Leinster. Again, I think they should have gone to the corner at some point with their penalties.

    I get where you are coming from, but LAR also weren't really getting anywhere til their somewhat fortuitous try. It looked like they could have been banging against that Leinster defence for some time to come - and if you look at Leinster's similar set in the opening few minutes sometimes it ends in a penalty against the attacking team.

    I don't think I understand what is meant by "winning the physical battle" in these terms. Their scrum was on top for sure but I also think you could have easily ended up in a scenario where they don't score that last try and the commentary is on their braindead attack that went nowhere. I'm not sure being held out on the line for the guts of 10 minutes is indicative of physical superiority. I would happily have a Hines in the pack, but I'm not sure I see that being the difference. Leinster got frustrated when their attacking play wasn't coming off (I would argue because of cynical LAR play that should have been more harshly punished) and lost their heads. The Sexton/Keenan screwup was entirely a mental mishap.



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    #9476
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 10,489 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Ref gives that Al'alatoea penalty to us ( as I think he should have) and it's a win for Leinster most likely.

    If we go for the corner instead of kicking for any of the three penalties around the 40-50 min mark, it's probably a win for us.

    What this match, and the lost final vs Saracens come down to is poor decision making. We had the winning in both imo.



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    #9477
    stephen_n
    Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119204299#Comment_119204299

    Yes, Leinster made some unforced errors. But La Rochelle winning the physical battle allowed them to capitalise on those errors.

    They didn’t win the physical battle though.



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    #9478
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,845 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119204353#Comment_119204353

    I think a Hines would make a massive difference tbh.

    If you look at the teams that have won the competition for Leinster in the past, they'll have had a big mean forward or a big one at least. You had the likes of Hines, Thorn, O'Brien, Healy (in his prime), even Toner was physically imposing. I don't think you have that any more.

    If you take the Leinster back 5 of Moloney, Ryan, Doris, VDF, Conan, all excellent players in their own way but none of them are mean bastards.



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    #9479
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,845 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119204409#Comment_119204409

    They did when it mattered, they managed to camp themselves in the Leinster half for the late stages of the game to grind out the win. They were making yards phase after phase, Leinster couldn't stop them (legally) and also couldn't get the ball back.

    A team that doesn't have physical dominance has no chance of doing that. None whatsoever.



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    #9480
    stephen_n
    Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119204419#Comment_119204419

    That’s not winning the physical battle. Leinster had more gain line success through the game and won more collisions. The fact they used their heavy forwards to grind out a try. Does not equate to your point that Leinster made mistakes from losing the physical battle.



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    #9481
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,845 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119204432#Comment_119204432

    I disagree. Winning the physical battle is not just about big spectacular plays where players smash over the gainline or carry for a few metres after being tackled. It is also about being able to maintain relentless pressure while also maintaining possession, and slowly but surely making progress forward.

    The majority of teams would never do to Leinster what La Rochelle did, cause most teams don't have the cattle to do it.



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