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I think justice was served here.

1246715

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    I'm open to correction here but a court determined he was a flight risk because flights to Brazil were booked in the immediate aftermath of the incident were a 16 year old kid was killed at his hands.

    He had a case to answer. If he got on that flight he was gone for good. Then you would be complaining about the justice system allowing him to leave etc.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Fair play to the Brazilian guy. This country is far too lenient towards feral and criminal scum. I have yet to visit Dublin once in the past 10 years and not be subjected to an unwanted interaction with some tracksuit wearing brute. If it were allowed, I would keep a gun or two in my home for self-defense purposes and have no qualms whatever about using it on any intruder. I think it is wrong for the state to try to monopolize violence when it cannot protect citizens in the moment when they are attacked.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,710 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    You may agree of disagree with the verdict, but the system here did not break.

    The DPP/state (after considering all the facts) decided the man had a case to answer. Read up on the facts that we know about. The prosecution argued he was OTT in defending himself.

    The man knew he had a knife on him, and pursued individuals with the knife on him (he had to know that there could then be aggro), and he then produced that knife to do damage. Yes, he will say self defence, but why go there and pursue knowing you have a knife on you and that you may use it.

    Anyone dismissing this out of hand and slating the DPP for bringing it is way off.

    Post edited by walshb on


  • Registered Users Posts: 506 ✭✭✭asdfg87


    To say its fair to be in prison for 18 months and be innocent "fair" i have to disagree...



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,271 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    I agree the verdict was correct. As someone who lives in the area, those gangs of young lads on bikes and scooters roaming the area were really threatening, even when it wasn't you they were targetting. I had seen them chase food delivery guys before this happened.

    You would have to question all the parents who didn't give a **** that their kids were out of home at night during a lockdown doing God knows what.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 506 ✭✭✭asdfg87


    I am talking about what happened, youn are talking of what might happen. Of course there was a case to answer assault and causing harm, i expect if this was the charge it would have being prosessed quickly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,835 ✭✭✭Allinall


    Why would they only charge him with assault and causing harm- if that is even a charge?

    He killed a guy with a knife. Murder was the correct charge.



  • Registered Users Posts: 296 ✭✭Ham_Sandwich


    Disgusting and racist comments here, a young boy ends up in the wrong place at the wrong time and is stabbed to death buy a grown man and people are cheering because its technicly "self defence" sickened I am.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    I can't believe he had temerity to pursue a bike thief who had just stolen a bike. Surely the correct course of action is to ring the gardai and be told that there's nothing they can do

    The jury said self defence as his actions were justifiable. The DPP pursued the case as there's nothing that scares them more than someone "talking the law into their own hands" rather than accepting that they should just be good little victims



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    "What might happen "

    Flights to Brazil were booked in the immediate aftermath of this incident. That is fact. A court determined he was a flight risk based on that fact so bail was denied. Correct course of action.

    Assault and causing harm doesn't wash as a charge when there is a body in the morgue.



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  • I don’t think that it is unreasonable that a person accused of murder who is also a flight risk, should be remanded before their trial.

    My opinion is that the outcome of the trial was fair.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,705 ✭✭✭Nermal


    Think of the money lavished on social programmes for the teenage gangs in the East Wall, and the opportunities available to them that they carelessly spurn. Contrast it with the drive of someone who travelled half-way round the world to work a low-wage job to advance himself.

    True justice would see him well compensated for his year and a half of imprisonment. Fund it from the taxpayer donations made to Dublin 3.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,186 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Anyone that thinks that they know better than those 12 persons that unanimously found the man not guilty after seeing and hearing more than anyone needs a long hard look at themselves.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,409 ✭✭✭corner of hells




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    16 is not a young boy

    Being part of a gang that is assaulting a man is not the wrong place at the wrong time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,710 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    You can agree with the verdict and also not slate the DPP for bringing the case.

    I respect the jury’s verdict.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,476 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    I think there would have been huge pressure on the DPP to bring a trial for "political" reasons.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭monseiur


    The Brazilian was not guilty of murder but guilty of manslaughter. Trouble was brewing for some time and he decided that enough was enough and took a stand and was deliberately armed for the purpose. The fact that he has already served some time in jail and is unlikely to reoffend a suspended sentence may be the correct verdict in law. I agree 100% that the court was right in setting him free. I can't but wonder what the courts verdct would be if the victim was from a different socio - economic class, say a Blackrock student.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Justice has been served. Hopefully this will send a message to those who attack people who are doing their job.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,611 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    My question about compensation was genuine, because I don't actually know. There is provisions in law about excessive unlawful detention incorporated into our statute in the past 10 - 20 years from European and Human Rights rulings.

    But the question remains, a person had his liberty removed from him for a rather long period of time for a crime he was found not guilty of. That is of the upmost seriousness. A persons liberty in this state is a fundamental right.

    Everyone can be deemed a flight risk to be fair, I'm reminded of what appears to be a more "blatant" case recently where the same thing was suggested in denial of bail, this was won on appeal. But then again their was expertise and money to back that up. That all said I haven't found anything to suggest he was denied bail, so maybe he didn't apply for it.

    The murder charge was as a flimsy as a case I have seen, the Judge should have stepped in and quashed it and put the charge of Manslaughter to the Jury.

    The Jury's questions of why key witnesses were not giving evidence was very pertinent and not answered.

    It was a complete mess by the prosecution, summed up by the fact that someone cycling a bike doing their job having rocks thrown at them was characterised as "low level" aggression. Room lost at that point I'd say.

    Sad case, with absolutely no winners.

    Ironically the accused grew up in the slums of Rio but had a very supportive family that kept him out of trouble.

    There is a lesson there.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,660 ✭✭✭✭For Forks Sake




  • Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Nah you can't question parents for anything. Sure they all do their best for the angles.

    Racist for... Defending the brown foreigner or?...

    Wrong place wrong time. Yup, he was more than 2km from home during lockdown. You're 100% correct. He then try to jump someone him and his buddies outnumbered. My dad heard the nonsense snippets in the media during the trial (Jesus they love shaping bullshit) and was thought it was awful. When he was acquitted and I mentioned there was CCTV showing what happened and the jury even acquitted him of assault then yeah, he was like "But why did they print all that?".

    Anyway, some more details https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/george-bento-murder-trial-what-the-jury-didnt-hear-41753432.html

    Some good quotes, his defence counsel:




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,476 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    Just a low level scuffle is all with broken teeth and a broker nose and a robbed bike, ah boys will be boys after all...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,894 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    the guy on the moped mostly likely got off scott free, right



  • Registered Users Posts: 9 11112


    I am delighted for him . A bunch of them stoned me a couple of years ago . Nearly lost an eye, it is still sore and I have just recently added another problem to my eye. One pupil bigger than the other , just like David Bowie.

    I bet the **** out of her , a 12 old girl. I had some explaining to do to the guards, but they didn't charge me.





  • What political reasons?

    A person was killed, and a trial of the person accused of the killing took place. Where is the politics?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,067 ✭✭✭✭fryup


    Surely he'll have to leave Ireland or at least Dublin after this, he may be a target for reprisals?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    The DPP could have decided not to proceed but they did. Because the DPP sees self defence in an extreme situation as the public "taking the law into their own hands" or, to be more accurate, as taking the law out of their hands.

    The instruments of the Irish state tend to do this, allow lawlessness to run riot and then react when ordinary people protect themselves



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 648 ✭✭✭MakersMark


    I'm genuinely shocked that some posters think this guy somehow "got off".


    He defended himself from potentially being murdered by a pack of uncontrolled animals.


    I hope the bleeding hearts are never forced into such a situation.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,476 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    Political reasons like a foreign adult killing a 16 year old from what could be deemed a poor socio economic circumstance. Pressure from the family, community, local councillors etc on DPP.. Show trials often happen for political reasons, the state has to be seen to seek justice no matter the cost or likelihood of the outcome. I don't know if it was the case here but it was a relatively high profile case so could understand if the DPP felt compelled to act in some way.

    Trials are expensive, people often get killed by someone else and no trial happens. Look at the burden of proof needed for the Sophie Toscan Du Plantier murder.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,611 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Trials are expensive, people often get killed by someone else and no trial happens. Look at the burden of proof needed for the Sophie Toscan Du Plantier murder

    Weird tangent, I don't think the burden of proof is unusual or is excessive in that case.

    Botched investigation, little to no physical evidence and a charge based loosely on hearsay.

    Comparing apples and oranges there.





  • This was no show trial. There was a case to be heard, enough evidence to bring it to court, and the jury made their decision.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    There is a high likelihood he would have been bailed if he didn't d*ck around with booking flights the day after the incident.

    He gave the judge no choice on that front.



  • Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 23,230 Mod ✭✭✭✭GLaDOS


    Horrible case, I thought he might get done with manslaughter, but you have to trust the jury who have seen everything in a case like this.

    No issue with him being detained, clearly a flight risk, but taking 18 months to go to court is ridiculous.

    Justice delayed is justice denied.

    Cake, and grief counseling, will be available at the conclusion of the test



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Come off it. A teenager was killed with a knife in chaotic circumstances.

    There was no way in hell that the DPP wasn't going to push charges of one sort or another.

    You'd likely be here crowing about soft on crime nonsense if the DPP didn't act.

    Absolutely crankery.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,516 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    Yes, it does seem slow here, and ironically I'd suggest that 18 months from incident to murder trial is probably as quick as it ever gets. (e.g, the recent Santini Cawley trial was 3 years after her murder).

    Though it's possible that the delays are often on the defence side rather than the prosecution side.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    DPP had access to the same CCTV footage that the jury saw, still went ahead anyway.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    I'll repeat, there is no way in hell the DPP will not push charges in any circumstances remotely resembling this.

    And I'll repeat again, we'd be getting 'soft on crime' cranks having a wobbler if they didn't.

    The DPP did their job.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,409 ✭✭✭corner of hells




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,611 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    She got Bail, with the High Court judge going out of his way to say

    Judge Creedon said the court had to be “mindful of a person’s presumed innocence”. 

    You have to extremely mindful of it, removing ones liberty cannot be taken lightly even in the most severe of circumstances.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,409 ✭✭✭corner of hells




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    She also (presumably) didn't book flights to a non-extraditing country in the immediate aftermath.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,516 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    That's true but I'm not sure it's got anything to do with the timing - I don't think the process goes any quicker just because someone has or hasn't got bail.

    As for the bail issue in the Bento case - I'm guessing there was either no application or his solicitor pointed out that the required surety was going to be so big that it was pointless to apply.

    It's a difficult situation really (remanded in custody for a long period, and then found innocent, but no compensation) - I can understand why it doesn't sit well with you or others. Though it's not unusual as such - it's the same situation as pertains in lots of jurisdictions, definitely UK, USA, Spain that I know of.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,611 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    No, but her passport was taken and she was given extremely strict bail conditions.

    TBH, I can't find a report that suggests he was denied bail, so maybe they didn't apply for it like I said previously, that certainly puts a different perspective on things.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,978 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    The jury had that verdict open to them but they found him innocent. He was NOT guilty of manslaughter. Your assumption is totally incorrect. There is a case that the state should never have charged him with murder and charged him with manslaughter only. They did not. All verdicts were and are open to the Jury.

    This dates back to when Padraigh Nally was charged with the murder of Frog Ward. The judge withdrew the options of a not guilty verdict from the jury in Castlebar. He was found guilty of MS and this was overturned on appeal as all verdicts are open to a jury

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Yes, the High Court denied him bail.

    The barrister that is up on charges for the shooting in Tallaght was also denied bail. He is a dual US / Irish citizen and the judge noted his significant links in the US. Also a country that doesn't extradite it's citizens in all but the narrowest circumstances. Think he appealed it, but I don't know where it went.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,710 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    You cannot be found "innocent" here....the verdict is not guilty..semantics, I know....but



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,611 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Yes, the High Court denied him bail.

    Have you citation for that? I have found nothing to suggest he went to the high court to apply for bail.

    The barrister that is up on charges for the shooting in Tallaght was also denied bail. He is a dual US / Irish citizen and the judge noted his significant links in the US. Also a country that doesn't extradite it's citizens in all but the narrowest circumstances. Think he appealed it, but I don't know where it went

    He very much got bail. Even had it relaxed to take a short trip with his family a couple of weeks ago..




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,564 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Good to know that after reading a couple of media reports you know better than the jury who spent weeks listening to and watching evidence in detail.

    BTW have you heard of the Anabel's case? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Brian_Murphy

    Scrap the cap!



  • Registered Users Posts: 46 ShamanRing


    Is there a go fund me for this chap? I’ve never set one up, but if a more established boardsie could set one up and let Bentos solicitor know that we have one for him, I’d send a few bob. Let’s get him back on his feet.



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