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Dublin Pride ends media partnership with RTE over Liveline's Gender Identity discussion

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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,493 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    A fella just passed my door in a wheelchair…Terry, he’s a neighbour, male, white straight etc…if he tells me he identifies as a one eyed, four fingered gender fluid gogo dancer from Kinshasa… called Mrs Arogundade…..he’s still not, he’s a 45 year old MAN called Terry Doyle, married to Aileen, two children, five fingers, a dog called champ who is allergic to peanuts.. Terry, not champ…



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,484 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    dragging in the Proud Boys and authoritarians.

    Madness too when it comes from a group of people who if they had their way would control everyone's speech on every issue. I suppose if a man can be a woman, then an authoritarian can be an advocate of freedom.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    But there isn't prejudice in saying that men are men and women are women.

    What level of prejudice do you find in this debate?



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,484 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Many of us really don't do the label thing ever as it never comes up or we see no point in doing so. This need to do so tends to come from very angry people at extreme ends of an online spectrum of imagined culture clash. As some posters have commented some parts of the LGBT community are aggressively fighting amongst themselves.

    On the topic I'd back RTE here. It's a pity that Dublin Pride felt a need to go their own way but it's not their place to control RTE's output.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    No would I have an issue with a racist who showed no prejudice?

    Erm.... no



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,484 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Yep. "None" is a level.

    When I asked "are we as a society, compfortable with some forms of prejudice, but not others? ", it doesn't imply that I see prejudice in the first place. If your answer to the question is "no" then so be it.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    There is no downside to them inviting RTE in and it's all very dramatic. BAI is the forum for complaints about broadcasters anyway.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Fair enough. It didn't read that way to me.

    I don't advocate for prejudicial behaviour but am aware that I, along with everyone else, am guilty of it at times.

    I just didn't see the relevancy of it in this thread and especially when coupled with the mention of racism.

    But your clarification is appreciated.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'm actually glad that Dublin Pride did what they did. It has shown them to be just as, if not more so, intolerant as the people they claim are the reason it exists.

    This is a massive PR blunder and has done nothing except excite the aggressive allys, who will grow louder to push their victimhood complex that they already had and confirm that they are not accepting of any conversation that doesn't go exactly the way they want it to.

    Dublin Pride, ironically, should be ashamed of their actions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 823 ✭✭✭Liberty_Bear


    The LGBT can cannibalise each other - its ridiculous, its been going on for years. And we wonder why we have stratification on the scen



  • Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    I'd actually call it throwing a bit of strop and even in public commentary supporting Dublin Pride there is little to no implied criticism of RTE and its mandate. I have absolutely no love for Liveline but it does serve a very useful purpose and is a key national resource for many people.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,055 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    Sadly the more enlightened senators have summoned rte to appear before them and are taking the pride side



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    why the fook do we need to relabel 95% plus of something to suit the 5%?

    A man is man and a woman is a woman end of ...

    It has worked for hundreds if not thousands of years.

    That doesn't and shouldn't mean that a trans person should be discriminated against in terms of employment, sexual orientation, the law, etc.

    This mental gymnastics, disregarding biology and physiology just to appear all inclusive for a tiny minority is a lot of cr**.

    We have jumped the shark so much nowadays with fools stating that a trans woman is just as much a woman as any born and reared female.

    What makes this even more ridiculous these days is that the threshold for some guy declaring themselves a woman is that they feel that way inclined.

    There isn't even a need for them to go on a course of hormone therapy never mind undergo surgery.

    And we have other fruit loops claiming someone is homophobic transphobic (discriminatory) because they state they are not sexually into trans people.

    FFS.

    The greatest threat to the advancement an acceptance of trans people it sems are trans activists and the loons that embrace modern activism.

    I am not allowed discuss …



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'm loathe to support RTE but in this case, they are completely right.

    Any capitulation will be the straw that breaks the camels back for me.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Ewan McKenna summed up the Dublin Pride decision quite neatly.

    In the past, gay people rightly wanted the public spotlight, with TV debates and so on, to raise awareness about their rights / marriage equality.

    Now that the LGBT community has reached a certain threshold of power, it now seeks to use this power to silence everyone else on other aspects of their agenda they'd like to force through.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,484 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Well, I felt that the Pride committ had over-reacted as RTE are tasked with giving air-time to a wide variety of viewpoints, irrespective of how comfortable or uncomfortable they may be, menaing they'd have a defence if someone expressed viewpoints that were transphobic or even homophobic. Then I thought, "would people be in support if some of the viewpoints were racist? Would RTE even air them?"

    Or would some of the posters who are siding with RTE now change side if the viewpoints were racist instead of transphobic?

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I wonder how many of the politicians actually heard any of the discussions before taking a position on the matter?

    So from what I can tell it's not really about what was said in the discussions, it's more that one was had in the first place isn't it? Or that the right talking head weren't in place to push the correct narrative.



  • Registered Users Posts: 877 ✭✭✭DarkJager21


    And hopefully RTE rip apart any attempt to introduce eggshells around this topic - there cannot be any acceptance of attempts at making something as polarising as this a taboo for open discussion.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 36 Mr.KarateII


    I refuse to use or normalize the usage of the term cis/cisgender as long as the people who came up with it use it as a slur. It's like the N word for normal people.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,657 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    I only heard snippets of Liveline over the last few days discussing the topic, and of course there was arguments on both sides. You know, like all good arguments!

    Not sure why Dublin Pride are so annoyed? Do they only want to hear one side talked about in this debate? Are they simply saying, "we don't care what people have to say if they don't take our point of view".

    If so, that's a very Trumpian attitude to it all. And will do them no favours in the long run with the general population.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I still don't see your point. The best way to expose racists and transphobes and Nazi sympathisers isn't to silence them, but to expose how stupid their arguments and positions are.

    The leader of the British National Party (an openly racist party) - Nick Griffin - saw his support collapse overnight when he appeared on Question Time. His arguments were completely exposed for what they are: nuts. He looked ridiculous. There were enormous protests outside the BBC at the time, arguing that Griffin should not be platformed. They turned out to be totally wrong in the end.

    So this idea of "platforming" people with bad views isn't always a bad thing. As we've seen with Griffin and others, sometimes public scrutiny of bad ideas is the best way of destroying those ideas. Letting bad ideas lurk in the under-growth only serves to encourage its spread. People can be tempted by conspiracy theories as an explanation for what's going on.

    So, if you had a 1-hour show on Liveline and the vast majority were sensible people debating the matter in good faith; even if a bad apple came along with actual hate speech against trans people, he would be ridiculed and done away with accordingly. You aren't going to have the entire panel endorsing and praising hateful speech against trans- people.

    Only extremely defensive and insecure people would want to shield their ideas from criticism. It's almost an admission that they know, if scrutinised, their arguments would fall apart.

    So silencing those people seems an attractive idea. But it never works in the long-term.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I believe all sides of any argument should be allowed to be aired. It's good to let people show themselves for what they truly are, such as what happened with Dublin Pride.

    They have lost all credibility because of their actions and their response to any sort of conversation that didn't go as they wanted.

    In this month of all months, where their level of public and corporate support would be at it's peak, they have torpedoed themselves



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    BTW can folks please stop referring to yer man Panti Bliss as a SHE.

    It is a guy in drag, not a woman, not a transwoman.

    And yes he is gay, but that still doesn't make him trans or anywhere near trans.

    So HE is not a SHE.

    And I don't know why he is getting his nickers in a twist over this.

    Also maybe it is time the gay/queer/lesbian/bi community started distancing themselves from the toxic trans activists.


    I think this modern preoccupation with fecking labels is another definite regressive US fashion that we have taken on.

    I remember one of the few things they used to label years ago was music, where certain stations only played certain types or genres of music which then meant music had to be correctly labelled and categorised to be played.

    Then they started labelling people and now we have corporations even trying to get their employees to add pronouns onto their correspondence.

    I am not allowed discuss …



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,015 ✭✭✭Shelga


    Again, what exchanges in the programme do you consider to have been transphobic?

    This is like asking a Brexiter to name some benefits of it.

    Of course I do not agree with hate speech being heard on our national radio broadcaster. I do not think that is what happened.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Also maybe it is time the gay/queer/lesbian/bi community started distancing themselves from the toxic trans activists.

    This has already started.

    Gay people, like myself, have distanced myself from the whole trans- activism side of things because sexuality rights are a very different thing to identity rights.

    And organizations have emerged, one notable example being the LGB Alliance, that seeks to defend the interests of sexuality rights and so on. But they are labelled as transphobic for doing so.

    After what Dublin Pride has done today, I think this has caused even more unnecessary division and debate - and during Pride month, of all times.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,002 ✭✭✭✭briany


    @jmayo

    Then they started labelling people and now we have corporations even trying to get their employees to add pronouns onto their correspondence.

    That's probably just corporations trying to cover their arses.

    However, in fairness, people have been getting labelled for a long time - class, religion, race to name a few biggies off the top of my head.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,781 ✭✭✭mohawk


    I am a woman and a mother, as a girl I was a complete tomboy. Loved Lego, train sets, sports and hated pink and dresses. The way I see it you can see man/woman as biological sex or else you can choose to see man/woman as gender stereotypes. When my mother was doing her leaving certificate she wasn’t allowed by the school to do honours maths because she is female. I watched women in older generations then myself find themselves restricted by society because of their sex. I am sure plenty of men out there could describe how stifling it was for males in the past to be themselves due to societal norms.

    I do not agree to calling myself ‘cis’, because it places too much value on gender over biological sex. Gender stereotypes/roles weren’t good for us in the past and they aren’t good for us now.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    Only a few years ago we would have all thought that this was some sort of satire

    "Extremely triggering" 🤡


    This would have went into the satire pile too

    It's absolutely nuts how quickly sanity can thrown away by some

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




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