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What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,707 ✭✭✭Bobblehats


    A product of that class all qualities bolstered by the public backlash she receives on social media. Contrary to belief there is a toughness; in her face a determination an element of spite. The public have spoken, and so she's doubling down. A recipe for disaster with seemingly no alternative to intervene



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It's a pantomime, no more, no less.

    Oh no its not!



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Migration is used to simultaneously drive asset prices, like housing, by increased scarcity, and to suppress wages/provide cheap labour. Money, money, money.

    I don't agree because it ignores the wide range of weaknesses within our own economic and cultural development. We're simply facing the problems that all developed, and more advanced developing nations face. It's just that Ireland's progress economically has been more accelerated than many of our neighbours who grew at a more stable pace.

    Ireland has become expensive. Really expensive in many areas. The costs involved in housing construction, whether that's labour or materials has consistently risen. Why is that? You know the reasons as well as I do. Rising costs of living, translate into rising costs across the board. The increases in government/state regulatory influence over Irish life has also contributed greatly to the costs involved for just about everything in this country. Which can be seen happening in other nations too. These are problems connected with the way development occurs.. and everyone just accepts that this is natural.. but is it?

    Housing scarcity could be alleviated rather quickly by taking 10% of housing estates in this country and converting them to tower apartments as you can find in Asia. This fetish Irish people have with houses is a major reason why there are shortages, considering that we're an island, our land is limited. But that's not going to change any time soon. Government/State regulations, planning authority, and the lack of long-term planning all seriously contributed to the housing scarcity.. and while immigration plays a role here, we'd be much better off dealing with our own problems rather than using migrants as a scapegoat.

    As for salaries/wages being suppressed, that only affects our low-skilled workers.. who frankly would have problems living in Ireland due to the rising costs, and the pressure to earn higher salaries. Such industries should be streamlined to need less workers, with technology brought in to replace those workers. But again, that's not going to happen, so low-skilled workers willing to live in poverty will be required.. and they'll come from abroad. After all, our own natives will be expected to receive welfare or supplements because they shouldn't have to live that way, no?

    Money, money, money? Maybe. We are a capitalist society.. although I would say that passing the buck is more of a consideration. Rather than deal with the real serious problems within our society and economic models, we seek to find reasons not to question how we've gotten here.

    Its no different to the problem of multiculturalism. We've all made the point that we can see immigration and the failures of integration play out in other countries abroad, so why would Ireland be any different? The same goes, though, for social and economic development.. because we are following the steps of other nations who developed, and are experiencing the same problems with wealth inequalities, social unrest, welfare dependencies, high costs of living etc.

    So.. perhaps we should be wondering how we can avoid such a fate, while retaining our success? Blaming immigration isn't the answer. It's certainly something that needs proper unbiased research and analysis done, with better policies implemented to protect the native group, with an eye on how it impacts both society and the economy over the long term... but immigration is a part of life now. We live in a connected world. It is what it is, and should be managed properly.



  • Registered Users Posts: 134 ✭✭freemickey


    It's this simple.

    Migration allows an unsustainable situation to balloon. And as we're rapidly seeing, a bursting too.

    No migration results in a rationalisation and solving of unsustainability.


    But that's separate from the fact that it's purposeful. It isn't a case that migration is ONLY being used to plug up the holes in the sinking ship, there are swathes of people just left walking about the place contributing nothing. They have been used to increase asset prices and suppress wages. It's dirty money.


    So instead of trying to accommodate the problem, a fools game, just solve the problem instead. Halt all migration, encourage as many as possible to leave the country, and then start dealing with a real, sustainable, affordable future for all.

    Which is easier and quicker to achieve, a red line drawn across a piece of paper, or building an entire home with all the time, effort and cost involved, providing the necessary increase in healthcare, education, infrastructure?

    Migration in this country is a mugs game.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Thats all good n well but we are at virtual full employment, businesses are screaming for staff and there are not enough workers for the existing roles that are out there, nevermind any businesses that want to grow or open anew.

    We need more people just to fill the empty job vacancies alone



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Where do they all live?

    Maybe, some of the businesses would be no longer viable, and go bust, because they have to pay their staff more.

    Back in the 80s, I worked in a clothing company which employed 550 people in Dublin, it's long gone. It's far cheaper to have clothes made in the far east, the clothing industry has disappeared from this country, we have to accept some entire industries will go, and it's better if they do.



  • Registered Users Posts: 134 ✭✭freemickey


    It patently doesn't work.

    Housing is a failure, healthcare is a failure, education is hot on their heels, and more. People pressure caused this.

    Migration as modus operandi of an economy is pure and utter scam city.

    The research bears all of this out. Overall gdp increases, but all other metrics decrease. Individual welfare and individual opportunity decreases.

    We are seeing this magic buffoonery here for years, "look how much money we have!", And then when people look around it's like "no??!"

    We patently don't need more vacancies filled, we dont need more jobs. We need to work with what we have, not keep pushing the boat ever further away forever. A point is crossed from healthy sustainability to unhealthy unsustainability. And we crossed it years ago.

    This is end game now of the pyramid scheme, and the right lessons better be learned from the fallout.


    Not that this is the most informative, but it shows it's happening in many other country's too. It's all lies.





  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    t's this simple.

    Migration allows an unsustainable situation to balloon. And as we're rapidly seeing, a bursting too.

    No migration results in a rationalisation and solving of unsustainability.

    Except you have no evidence to support such assumptions. Japan and China both have extremely little actual immigration, and have had serious problems with the cost of living, the costs associated with housing, etc. because they're connected with modern developed or developing economies. Japan is closest to your utopian dream of no migration, and they're struggling to manage their population, and the economy/society is suffering badly as a result. Definitely not the answer for being sustainable... as they're finding out.

    I have no idea what you mean by rationalisation, in such a context.

    But that's separate from the fact that it's purposeful. It isn't a case that migration is ONLY being used to plug up the holes in the sinking ship, there are swathes of people just left walking about the place contributing nothing. They have been used to increase asset prices and suppress wages. It's dirty money.

    Seems that "they'll" make money regardless of what system is at play.. because they will. You're looking for some grand conspiracy when there is none.

    How have salaries in Ireland been suppressed? (Not counting hospitality or similar low-skilled labour) In 2000, I started working professionally with a salary of just over 8k pounds in Dublin (EsatBT), raised to 12k after a year, and it felt wonderful.. salaries have increased dramatically since then, including for entry-level positions.

    So instead of trying to accommodate the problem, a fools game, just solve the problem instead. Halt all migration, encourage as many as possible to leave the country, and then start dealing with a real, sustainable, affordable future for all.

    So.. you're banking on a low population. Sounds like you're part of the environmental camp. How are you going to prevent Irish people from emigrating abroad? Cause, throughout all of Ireland's economic booms, there was still plenty of Irish leaving the country. But you advocate encouraging people to leave in addition to the normal migratory habits...

    How do you meet the demands for skilled/educated workforces, when you don't have the population to meet those needs, but also, the consumer base to provide revenue? (You really should take an hour or two to research how Japan has developed over the last three decades, and how a declining population has affected them)

    You're describing a recipe for disaster... and over-estimating the stability of the Irish economy to soak up the costs and losses in production.

    Which is easier and quicker to achieve, a red line drawn across a piece of paper, or building an entire home with all the time, effort and cost involved, providing the necessary increase in healthcare, education, infrastructure?

    Easier or more effective? There's a difference. Anyway, your previous idea doesn't answer your own questions.. so...?

    Migration in this country is a mugs game.

    On that we agree, but we're coming from very different places.



  • Registered Users Posts: 134 ✭✭freemickey


    There is a grand conspiracy. A simple conspiracy.

    Why didn't they address migration during every worsening year of the housing crisis? Because it made money. There was no more chance of them "fixing" the highly profitable crisis than a snowball in hell.

    Believe it or not, conspiracy or not, the results are the same: migration is intrinsically, lock-step, connected to the housing crisis.

    Japan is an interesting one. They haven't solved the problem yet, but at least they're facing reality. They're a step ahead.

    We're still playing games of pretend on a pyramid scheme that inevitably ends in disaster.


    As for suppressed wages, look at the airport fiasco and the resultant idea to bring in yet another 40,000 non EU migrants for cheap jobs. Ridiculous.

    It's all about facing reality and the future, and that means adjustment. If your business can't survive by paying a living wage, then you don't have a business. If it's too expensive to live here, the country is broken. Likewise, if you need cheap imported labour (practical slavery), you don't have a business. If you can't house non-stop arrival of extra workers, you don't have a functioning country. If your health system can't cope with the extra numbers, it doesn't work. It you don't have the skills needed, you have a failed education system. And so on. You fix these things, not encourage them via migration.

    It's a painful transition to sustainability, but building towers to the sun filled with people on a relative rock in the atlantic is just science fiction. It won't work, it all ready doesn't work. Adaptation to reality will happen sooner than later, it's the only outcome.

    In the meantime these pyramid ponzi scheme are for the birds, snake oil territory.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    This is end game now of the pyramid scheme

    You'll find the tinfoil in aisle 3, I'm afraid the hats are DIY



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  • Registered Users Posts: 134 ✭✭freemickey


    When one points out that too many people (which we have) equal a housing crisis (which we have) and a worsening healthcare situation (which we have) and a burgeoning educational failure (which we have), and is then met with "lol, here's a tinfoil hat"....


    that's the sign that people need to lay down the crack pipes and back way the f*ck up and ask themselves some serious questions, the foremost of which being "am I out of touch with reality, or is it the facts that are wrong?"


    It's uncomfortable. It's inconvenient. It flies in the face of all you've been instructed to believe on good faith. But it's the truth.

    Every goddamned iota of evidence, research, and statistics indicates the truth. Common sense, were it still around, would tell you too.

    Migration is the driving component of the decline of this country, the fuel. That's it.




    If it's all too much at once, try finishing this sentence....


    "It makes sense that the government are fast-tracking 40,000 extra non EU migrants, on top of the increasing migration, during a housing crisis, during an affordability crisis, during a homeless crisis, during 11 hour wait times in hospitals, during a Ukrainian refugee housing crisis, during a lack of places for school children, that decision makes sense because....."


    Finish that sentence.



  • Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]



    The long march through the institutions...

    You were a professional making less than minimum wage?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Aaaaanyway, moving on from the special sauce.....

    This is good news

    RTE news : EU set to propose start of Ukraine membership process


    Will take years, of course, but once they achieve membership they will be able to come, live, work, study etc here without issue and not just as a result of the war.

    I wonder if it will be another large bloc of expansion or if it'll be done one by one when the list of candidates are ready

    • Ukraine
    • Moldova
    • Georgia
    • North Macedonia
    • Montenegro
    • Albania
    • Serbia
    • Bosnia
    • And possibly Kosovo

    I'm looking forward to seeing the expansion regardless of how its done.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,270 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Is what happens…

    wages are driven down…

    prices of everything are driven up… so it will leave us poorer… with less opportunity, all of the people in greater competition for jobs, healthcare and housing…

    rich people get richer and everyone else it will be survival.



  • Registered Users Posts: 134 ✭✭freemickey


    No, not "annnyway". You accused me of needing a tinfoil hat, and then you just run off and post more propaganda.

    Answer the question I asked you. I dare you to give it a try and finish the sentence. Let's see the extent of your reasoning ability.


    Migration is the driving component of the decline of this country, the fuel. That's it.


    If it's all too much at once, try finishing this sentence....


    "It makes sense that the government are fast-tracking 40,000 extra non EU migrants, on top of the increasing migration, during a housing crisis, during an affordability crisis, during a homeless crisis, during 11 hour wait times in hospitals, during a Ukrainian refugee housing crisis, during a lack of places for school children, that decision makes sense because....."


    Finish that sentence. Forget the propaganda and finish that sentence.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    If you’re asking people to forget your propaganda, they can’t finish your sentence because it doesn’t have a beginning.

    If you want people to finish the sentence which is based upon your propaganda, the answer which would make the most sense to me at least is because it’s our duty as a nation to provide humanitarian aid, and it’s our duty as individual human beings to provide support to other human beings in their time of need.

    Quite simply, because it’s the decent thing to do. It’s contained in the preamble to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and each of the articles which follow, the fundamental principles upon which Western democratic society is based -

    https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-human-rights


    That’d be the society I’m assuming you’re just as much a part of as everyone else, as opposed to the kind of society you claim you don’t want to live in.



  • Registered Users Posts: 134 ✭✭freemickey


    My propaganda??

    You mean statistics?

    The same statistics you realise are true, and implications are true, because your answer is basically "yes, but because it's nice"?


    No, that's not an answer, all the same.

    The decision to expedite a further 40,000 non EU people into the country during numerable crises is f*cking well not being done because it's "nice", it's f*cking not being done under any obligation whatsoever, United Nations or not.


    I'm sick of lying, tripping, fools trying to cover over an erupting volcano by saying "look over there!"


    Your philosophy is so strong it falls apart when faced with a single sentence. Bastards are all ye are, lying bastards that would see the country sink under the weight of people than admit who ye are. Yes, bastards, and ye well know it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    Yes, your propaganda.


    Your philosophy is so strong it falls apart when faced with a single sentence. Bastards are all ye are, lying bastards that would see the country sink under the weight of people than admit who ye are. Yes, bastards, and ye well know it.


    The philosophy doesn’t fall apart at all, or did you miss the part where it’s been the basis of Western society that has a history which goes back a lot further than two world wars and even the Enlightenment if you want to go back even further? It’s withstood not only time, but a whole slew of challenges and changes throughout human history.

    Rather than there being any question of the philosophy I subscribe to being found to be lacking, it’s your philosophy has historically been found to be lacking, which would explain it’s unpopularity, if it weren’t for the fact that it’s just a bit shyte.


    I’m also very much aware of my ancestry and heritage, my parents were Irish citizens who were married, to each other I hasten to add, a long time before I was born 😂



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I've no idea what the minimum wage was in 2000, but it was what I was earning during my "probationary" period, excluding commissions on bad debts resolved. Entry level position.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    For all that you wrote, you didn't address a single point I made in response to your previous post.

    You took it as an opportunity to reassume your position on the soapbox..

    Not going to bother addressing this or the rest until I see you engaging with posters and their responses to you.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    OK so who is in favour of opting out of schengen?

    What politician's have ever mentioned this option? It's obvious current government parties would not consider it as they seek tens of thousands from outside the EU and speak of a population of 10 million on the island



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,920 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Yeah we're all a large happy family aren't we?

    Some small issues like genocide and ethnic cleaning and countries that don't recognise each other won't be a problem, it'll be grand, no worries. What can possibly go wrong with removing the borders in the ex yugoslavia region?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,168 ✭✭✭Patrick2010


    I learned a good while ago not to bite at his posts.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    AKA: Charity, one of the legs of the shaky stool of the politic of multiculturalism. It's the least woodwormed leg compared to the exoticism fetish and we wuz migrantz onze I grant you. Still, his question, clumsy as it is, does look around for an answer. If your fridge is looking empty, you don't invite more people around for a meal.

    The current Ukrainian crisis is at least understandable in the response, if the apparently near complete lack of planning and foresight isn't. Though it speaks vloumes that a war in Syria that to date has more deaths and destruction and refugees and has gone for longer didn't tickle our "charity" fancy nearly so much. We took in one tenth of the number of Syrians over ten years and each one was vetted to the hilt. Yet in three months... Lucky for the Ukrainians that they don't tan so readily.

    However the drive to pull more and more people that aren't "doctors and engineers" coming here legally from beyond EU shores is far less understandable. It's happy clappy pie in the sky come all, it'll be grand in our melting pot nonsense and it hasn't worked so well anywhere else in the "multicultural west". Again please give one example in any nation in the "multicultural west" where the exact same trends don't happen. Again, you can't, because there quite simply isn't one.

    Now your position comes from a thoughtful and kind place rather than some hand me down blind faith seen in others, but IMHO it's still an extremely naive one and reality and social history demonstrates that.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,707 ✭✭✭Bobblehats


    This is really feckin surreal isn’t it? ..soo many people walking around look like they don’t even remotely belong here and then you realise they’re not even on holiday; what’s up with that hey remember when Spanish was exotic to us?! They’ll be the palest around at this rate ..



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo




  • Registered Users Posts: 414 ✭✭dorothylives


    That sad case of the Brazilian delivery guy who stabbed the young chap of African descent was a typical example of what happens with uncontrolled migration. I fully agree with the verdict. The thing is, the Brazilian chap was here as an English language student and seems to have 'overstayed' his visa buy quite a few years. I've no idea what the circumstances of the chap who died were and it doesn't matter now. But the thing is, if the Brazilian man hadn't been allowed to overstay his visa then you could argue that the other young lad wouldn't be dead. It's a very simple thing to check the visa status of delivery guys and if they are here illegally then they should be deported immediately. Illegal migrants are illegal migrants.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,920 ✭✭✭Cordell


    >>But the thing is, if the Brazilian man hadn't been allowed to overstay his visa then you could argue that the other young lad wouldn't be dead

    What about bringing proper consequences to these feral scumbag teenagers?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,462 ✭✭✭rgossip30


    A new party not connected to the present national Party .



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