Value of Purchased Repocessed Property

Darith · 15-06-2022 8:45pm #1

Hello,

If one has bought a repocessed property usually for cash whereby the bank has mysteriously lost the deeds; does the property increase in value with the new deeds created by one's own solicitor. Although the chain on the new deeds would only begin with the repocession? Also i presume no bank or lending instituition would still not be inclined to lend against such a property?

David.

Claw Hammer · 16-06-2022 5:08pm

A lot would depend on how the property was repossessed. Receiver or Court Order. Also it would have to be registered before it could be sold.

chops018 · 16-06-2022 5:14pm

Once there is good marketable title, you should be fine.

Claw Hammer · 16-06-2022 5:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119212294#Comment_119212294

How can there be any kind of title with no deeds?

Dempo1 · 16-06-2022 5:39pm

I'm curious wether deeds are lost and new one created how would that have any relevance to an increase in Value. I presume if purchased for cash without deeds (very, very risky) the price paid was low in relation to properties true market value so technically the value is more than what paid anyway 🤔

I presume buyer also did thouragh searches on land registry to insure no judgements registered against the property and folio.

Is is also easy to create new deeds , just out of curiosity 🤔

tvjunki · 16-06-2022 5:44pm

Deeds used to be stored locally in the towns. We were looking to buy a house in Louth but our solicitor advised against it. The library went on fire many years ago and the deeds went up in the fire. We were told if we bought the house that after we refurbishing the house anyone could turn up at the door with the deeds.

What does your solicitor say? Make sure you get what ever they say in writing. You may need to pay a insurance bond just in case someone turns up claiming ownership.

chops018 · 16-06-2022 10:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119212338#Comment_119212338

The OP essentially said in this hypothetical scenario that they would get a Solicitor to reconstitute title. This can be done when there are no deeds.

If there's no deeds at all and it's unregistered property then use the previous owners name and address (presumably they would at least have this information from the bank if it was repossessed) and off you go to the Registry of Deeds office (or engage a law searcher) and carry out a search against the names and address of the property and obtain what you can - even if there are only memorials of previous deeds recorded in the registry of deeds, that would be plenty to reconstitute title.

If it's registered, then great, just get your folio.

If there are absolutely no deeds at all then presumably the root of title will now start with the repossession as the OP said, but if the bank had a charge and repossessed it then the Deed from the bank to the new owner can clear all previous charges and owners on title etc if the banks charge ranks in first priority (there are sections in the Registration of Title Act 1964 and the 2009 Conveyancing Act, if I'm remembering correctly, in this regard). So they should be fine. It won't be straightforward, but most property solicitors should be able to get it through the land registry. I don't know the ins and outs but and it could take years rather than months but it can be sorted by way of affidavits etc., whether there are deeds or no deeds at all. If it's very complicated a Solicitor can even engage a Barrister who specialises in land law.

Only thing is, if it could be expensive to sort!

Claw Hammer · 17-06-2022 1:49pm

The o/p doesn't say how the bank came into possession of the propoerty. If there is no court order and the bank walked in, it would be very different to a situation where there was a walk in.

If it is registered there would be effectively nothing to be lost so it must be the case that the property is unregistered.

L1011 · 17-06-2022 8:26pm

If you manage to reconstruct good title, the value would most likely increase as it would become possible for a buyer using a mortgage to buy it, massively increasing the potential market.

chops018 · 17-06-2022 8:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119215995#Comment_119215995

True, and indeed the OP says it was the bank who lost the deeds. We don't have enough info. I presume the mortgage deed dictates how the bank can take possession. Sometimes a court order is not required. But again, more info would be needed. Look, I'm not disagreering or arguing with you, my main point is that title can indeed be reconstituted, sometimes easily, most times not.

True. If it's registered it's not really an issue. Just requisition a folio and check it out.

I suppose the answer to the OP's question is, if they got the property at a massively reduced cash price due to title issues and then they went off and remedied this then yes, you'd assume the property would sell for market value so to speak so if you got it for 200k with the issues but the market value of one with no issues is 250k and you've sorted the issues then you'd be looking for the 250k if reselling.

Darith · 19-06-2022 7:13pm

So how would one get the current deeds evaluated to ascertain market value?

chops018 · 20-06-2022 11:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119224371#Comment_119224371

TL;DR get a solicitor.

A solicitor would be able to review the title deeds to ensure there are no gaps in title or any issues that might make the property harder to sell. If the property is registered and there is a folio and it's unencumbered then from a title perspective you should have good marketable title i.e. you are the owner legally entitled to sell. The folio is state guaranteed, which means it has gone through all the checks via the Property Registration Authority (the Land Registry) and on this document it will give the property description, details of who the current owner is and any past owners, and if any mortgages or rights of way affect the property and also a map delineating the boundaries of the property.

But after that there could be other issues such as no planning permission for an extension, mapping or boundary issues, burdens on title that might affect ownership.

If the property is unregistered this means there should be a bundle of deeds available to show the chain of title and how ownership transferred. This is a lot more complex to review than if you have a folio. You need to check if the property is freehold ownership, usually transfers will be done via deeds of conveyance. If it's leasehold ownership then there will usually be deeds of assignment, for this you also need to go back and check the superior lease to see what covenants might affect the ownership. Then burdens such as rights of way or mortgages might be separate deeds which should also be with the bundle of deeds and these need to be checked. All these documents should be registered with the Registry of Deeds and have an appropriate Registry of Deeds registration stamp. Other things that might need to be checked are if there are certain declarations included with change of ownership such as Family Home Declarations etc.

If you're selling unregistered property the solicitor acting for you in the sale basically drafts the contracts using the title deeds and furnishes them to the buyers solicitor who checks if there is good marketable title and they can carry out first registration in the Land Registry for the buyer. You will also need to provide them with a land registry compliant map. Usually done by an engineer.

To have good marketable title for unregistered property you need to go back to a Deed for value from 15 years or more and deduce title from there to the current owner.

As you can see, not exactly straight forward which is why it is always best to get a solicitor involved.

However in saying that, pretty much no one sorts any title issues before selling. Usually contact an estate agent who will advertise for whatever the current market value is for similar in the area and that is pretty much what it is worth so long as someone is willing to pay for it. Issues with title or deeds etc. usually only become apparent when contracts are done up and title deeds sent to the buyers solicitor. If it's a cash buyer then they can usually take on some issues if they really want the property but they are advised they if they want to sell or finance the property down the line these issues will come up again. If the buyer is getting a mortgage then usually such issues will have to be resolved before the sale completes.

Usually disounts are only negotiated if there are any structural issues found upon a survey rather than title issues as they can usually be resolved.

Claw Hammer · 20-06-2022 4:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119224371#Comment_119224371

You still haven't explained how the bank came i8nto possession of the property. A conveyancer can give an opinion on title and say whether a bank would accept it for mortgage purposes. Even this is not an exact science as some banks may lend if the LTV is low but not if it high, An estate agent would then have to say if there was a market for people willing to live with whatever problems are identified. Some people will tolerate a problem if it is capable of being resolved. Someone might buy with dodgy planning for an extension if they gedt a discount and the work was done a long time before.

Darith · 04-07-2022 12:19pm

Would it better to get another solicitor's opinion as oppose dto the one whom drew up the deeds?

Value of Purchased Repocessed Property

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