What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

The panic was on both sides you know. They never expected to go through, they were just using it as a rallying tool, but they didn't actually wanted it (with some exceptions of course).

Even though reality have give them several punches politically, they never learn. They really struggle to grasp that their social media feeds and what news outlets and politicians have to say, doesn't reflect what's actually happening on the ground. It's the same with the LGBT stuff, they think the majority are their allies, but in reality the majority doesn't care, and spends little to no time thinking about them.

Or unless you're Helen McEntee...

I view anyone working illegally in a country as an illegal migrant whether they're in Ireland or the US.

You asked a question, you got an answer.

You didn’t like the answer you got, but it was an answer nonetheless.

I couldn’t even be bothered to get into entertaining your argument because it’s based upon pretending that you give a shyte about the country. It’s based upon pretending that we can’t address issues simultaneously, yet that’s what our Government with all it’s various departments does, every day.

You want to pretend Ireland’s population density means we don’t have any room for more people, yet one third of the population live in the capital city, like the rest of Ireland which isn’t as densely populated, doesn’t exist. The apartment analogy simply doesn’t work - Ireland can MAKE more room to accommodate more people if it wants to.

You can’t call your numbers reality, because mathematics itself is entirely philosophical, the figures you’re bandying about, don’t stand on their own. You’re arguing that it’s simple mathematics, but it’s not. Your example of it being a numerical problem for eight people living in a two bedroom apartment ignores the reality that it happens every day, and it’s not a problem. You DECIDE it’s a problem based upon your standards which are based upon your philosophy.

All the ‘crisis’ you mentioned, they’re based upon perspective. The latest one I heard this morning is that people are experiencing ‘energy poverty’. It’s not just a case that people are experiencing poverty any more, there appears to be an attempt to frame poverty in such a way as to make it into a crisis, like the ‘housing crisis’, which is predicated upon broadening the criteria for how homelessness is defined -

2.—A person shall be regarded by a housing authority as being homeless for the purposes of this Act if—

(a) there is no accommodation available which, in the opinion of the authority, he, together with any other person who normally resides with him or who might reasonably be expected to reside with him, can reasonably occupy or remain in occupation of, or

(b) he is living in a hospital, county home, night shelter or other such institution, and is so living because he has no accommodation of the kind referred to in paragraph (a),

and he is, in the opinion of the authority, unable to provide accommodation from his own resources.

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1988/act/28/section/2/enacted/en/html#sec2

This is why I refer to your claims as propaganda -

: the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person

: ideas, facts, or allegations spread deliberately to further one's cause or to damage an opposing cause

also  : a public action having such an effect

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/propaganda

It’s why I can casually dismiss your rabble rousing bollocks referring to anyone who doesn’t share your opinions regarding immigration, as a bastard who wants to ruin the country, for the rabble rousing BS that it is. It’s obvious you’re not the least bit concerned about any threat posed by immigration - you’ll seek to condemn anyone who doesn’t share your opinions on a whole range of issues, their nationality or citizenship status doesn’t actually matter.

AKA: Charity, one of the legs of the shaky stool of the politic of multiculturalism. It's the least woodwormed leg compared to the exoticism fetish and we wuz migrantz onze I grant you. Still, his question, clumsy as it is, does look around for an answer. If your fridge is looking empty, you don't invite more people around for a meal. 

Been in that situation more times than I’d care to admit to tbh, and that’s exactly what I did - admitted that the fridge was empty and I didn’t have anything, and could they bring something with them. Whoever turned up was fed and drank and everyone had a good time. From their perspective, some people who I’ve told that to have kinda scratched their heads and wondered have I any self-respect. Don’t get me wrong, I get the point of the analogy, but for me it’s always been the case that I’d do the same for anyone else if they were in that situation, and I don’t question whether they have any self-respect for themselves, because I don’t believe in kicking people when they’re down. I don’t generally go to the effort of explaining THAT much to anyone though - people either get it, or they don’t.

The current Ukrainian crisis is at least understandable in the response, if the apparently near complete lack of planning and foresight isn't. Though it speaks vloumes that a war in Syria that to date has more deaths and destruction and refugees and has gone for longer didn't tickle our "charity" fancy nearly so much. We took in one tenth of the number of Syrians over ten years and each one was vetted to the hilt. Yet in three months... Lucky for the Ukrainians that they don't tan so readily. 

Gonna be honest Wibbs I know SFA about the situation in Syria and that neck of the woods. I know even less about Ukraine and stuff, it’s why I don’t get involved in those threads. There probably is an element of being unable to relate to a group that we have no affinity with, like based upon the colour of their skin, but it’s probably more cultural and political reasons that we don’t have the same affinity with Syria as we do with Ukraine. I’m also willing to consider the idea that social media slacktivism has a greater part to play than any of the above factors though, because we aren’t too shabby about promoting other causes involving people who don’t look anything like the Casper white liberal types who display social media causes like merit badges on their profiles with as much understanding of the social and political contexts of conflicts in those countries as I do. Yesterday I was on Teams chatting to one of the girls from work who’s from Jordan. She was just gone home on holidays. I’d chat to her in the office before then and it never occurred to me to ask where she was from, I just figured she was from one of the *Stans 😁

My point is I guess that I don’t really care where people are from, I care about what I can do for people if they need help. It’s the standard I hold myself to, as opposed to the standard I hold other people to, or the idea of “well they never did anything for me, why should I go out of my way for them?” I hold Ireland as a country to the same standard - it’s our duty as a country to help people, no matter whether they’re Irish or foreign, or what country they’re from. I regard Ireland as a civilised society, and I’m proud of us as a nation that it’s people are as giving as they are, even if our Government aren’t. I don’t expect Government to do anything, it’s why I don’t encourage anyone to be dependent upon them to do anything. That’s why I’m never surprised by Government’s failure to do anything. Politicians, as demonstrated by their career choices, are inherently self-serving.

However the drive to pull more and more people that aren't "doctors and engineers" coming here legally from beyond EU shores is far less understandable. It's happy clappy pie in the sky come all, it'll be grand in our melting pot nonsense and it hasn't worked so well anywhere else in the "multicultural west". Again please give one example in any nation in the "multicultural west" where the exact same trends don't happen. Again, you can't, because there quite simply isn't one.

Now your position comes from a thoughtful and kind place rather than some hand me down blind faith seen in others, but IMHO it's still an extremely naive one and reality and social history demonstrates that.

Does the second part in bold go anywhere towards explaining the first part in bold? I mean, I can understand why… a lot of people really, wouldn’t be able to understand why I don’t care about immigrants social or economic status. I understand what the pull factors for them are - we’re a wealthy economy by comparison to the economies they’re coming from. I don’t want to STOP people from coming who can’t fend for themselves. That to me is like kicking people when they’re down.

I get where anyone is coming from who says it’s naïve, because it assumes the best in other people, as opposed to the opposite side of the coin which is to assume the worst of other people, and reality and social history have equally demonstrated how that perception and portrayal of other people plays out - it leads precisely to what we see not just in other countries, but even in our own with the conflict up in the North, conflict among communities, conflict among neighbours, even conflict among posters here where they say we have to help our own first.

Yet when the very people they claim we have to help - if one of them asks for help, the same people find every reason to say we shouldn’t be helping those people either, because this other group of people need help, and they always manage to find a group of people who we should help first. In reality there’s nothing stopping them from helping the people they claim need our help, but I disagree strongly with their idea that anyone else should only help the people who meet that person’s criteria. It’s false condemnation to condemn people who are helping one group of people and not helping other groups of people, because concepts like empathy and social responsibility just don’t function like that. That’s why this idea of “we should be helping our own people first”, while I get it, it just means I think to myself - we’re probably not talking about the same people.

Colleges are still housing them on campus… loads in the one near me.

come September my guess is they’ll be moved to hotels….can’t expect students from outside Dublin to live in hotels and there won’t be as many rooms going in houses.

then there might be a bit of a business vs business punch up of sorts…. 6 months later is Paddy’s day… the larger business community will lose their shït… especially after what a lot of them had to endure during covid if tourists are turned away due to lack of hotel rooms….I’d back them on this one..

ditto for other bank holiday’s ..

situation is a fûcking mess… as usual now in these scenarios the native taxpayers are the last to get considered and they sure as shît have no say in the matter. None whatsoever…

These people need to be somewhere and won’t disappear into the ether when we, Irish people require these resources, services and amenities all of which we have paid for and are paying for…for ourselves.