Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

How do ye think the 23 will look like for the first Māori game? Think it’ll be along the lines of:

Loughman Heffernan O Toole

McCarthy treadwell

prendergast coombes timoney

Casey byrne

frawley Hume

JOB Lowry Larmour

herring Porter Bealham Baird Pom Murray aki Lowe/Hansen

For the first game I expect it will be. You’ve a Wednesday to Saturday turnover with four games yet to play after. The second Māori game could see more experienced lads get game time with a threat to Saturday turn over and only one game left

I dont think its that bold a prediction, either him or Ryan Baird will get a run at 6 in one test I think.

Be surprised if every one doesn't get a cap

cause stuart hogg is a lions class 10...........

have to disagree, after rwc 2011 things fell of a cliff largely but 2009 -2011 was decent, peaking at the start yes but it didnt dip too much pre rwc 2011. and sexton most definitely wasnt at his peak, for ireland at least anyway, england was pretty much the one game for ireland he played well that year, maybe the argentina game in the AIs in 2010 too. he was average at best against aus and his goalkicking wasnt cutting it so benching him made sense. may have been a bit harsh on reddan in fairness but it was 50/50 between him and murray so it probably made sense to keep the munster halves together.

sexton played fantastically for leinster that season but was largely poor for ireland apart from the england game (which he was lucky to start as he had been very poor when he came on in the wales game the previous week), it made sense to give him as many starts as possible to build his experience but when it came down to the crunch time in the rwc it made sense to bench him. kidney may have got alot of things wrong (a helluva lot after that especially) but how he dealt with sexton and o gara was one he definitely got right

the 2011 6N was the only time he wasn't first choice for ireland after the 2009 SA game, as ive stated already o gara only started the first two 2010 6N games as sexton was out for the italy game and coming back from a layoff against france. o gara started one game of the summer tour and one game (samoa) of the AIs, sexton was backed and started every other game up to the scotland 6N game in 2011 where he had been playing so poorly that he had to be dropped, development or not. agreed TOL wasnt playing particularly well either and should have been dropped earlier, but they had played very well as a combination pre 2011 6N so that cant be too much of an excuse. i also wouldnt exactly read too much into o garas retirement announcement, he was visibly emotional and id imagine being away from his family for the extended period was much more of a reasoning rather than declan kidney's man management - something which he is pretty famous for (much as they didnt have a great relationship all the same)

again as ive said already, sexton was poor in rwc 2011, especially his goalkicking. fine, he and reddan started against aus but the missed penalties from sexton meant the game was much closer than it needed to be and he wasnt exactly doing anything amazing in open play either. (yet) again, it may have been harsh to bench reddan too as ive already said, but i can see the logic of keeping teammates together

completely disagree regarding the 2012 6N too, ireland were largely poor all tournament and in their one decent performance away to france sexton was shocking in the second half, though it made more sense to keep backing him since o gara wasnt likely to be around for the next rwc

Whatever about ROG, Farrell has made his bed here in Carbery and H Byrne as 2 and 3 behind Johnny. I hope both start tests in NZ as we are definitely running out of time if they don't. HB has never started a test for Ireland and only has two caps. As third choice there's a very good chance he will play, and maybe start, a life or death WC match next year.

Realistically, unless someone comes storming out of the gate at the start of next season and looks like they could be a genuine replacement for Sexton, we are absolutely goosed if we need to use a third, or even second choice 10 in a crunch game in the world cup. Everyone below Sexton has either reached their ceiling, or is too young and a WC cycle away from their best.

Honestly, I'm assuming this tour is when we will find out. If Byrne gets starts agains the Maori, does well and starts a test then it could seal the deal for him. It's why I'd love to see both Carbery and Byrne start tests. I'd hate to go into next season in the same place we've been, which is to say there are 4 or 5 backups with nothing between them.

But if that’s where we realistically are then we can’t change that.

I agree with some of what you're saying. The other options do need game time, regardless of whether they're as good as Sexton or not.

But nobody can argue that Carbery hasn't been given plenty of game time. Since his return from his long-term injury in early 2021, Ireland have played 10 tests, and Carbery has started 4 of them, 2 of which were v tier 1 nations (3 if you count Japan as tier 1), and I'm 99% sure he'll start at least 1 test in NZ. He's also been playing big European games regularly for Munster. So Carbery has had every opportunity to establish himself as a test standard 10. Say what you will about Farrell, but he's been very consistent on who his no.2 out half is.

But this is why I find the H.Byrne selection strange. In nailing his colours to the mast that H.Byrne is his no.3, he's put himself in a position where he needs to give him minutes in big games and probably start him in at least one test between now and the RWC, when he's been playing virtually no big games for Leinster. Burns has been playing in massive games for Ulster and he's for the most part been very solid this season. Burns being 28 vs H.Byrne being 23 doesn't matter at this stage in the cycle. If the world cup was in 3 or 4 years I'd understand, but it isn't, it's in less than 18 months. H.Byrne, who's had an incredibly injury disrupted season with some very mixed form, will need to go through incredible growth in that time to become good enough for that level.

Probably 4th after the Ngatai signing

i dunno, cant see him playing 10 for leinster but frawley could leapfrog him though

It would be insane of Farrell to start JS in all 3 tests though that doesn't mean it won't happen.

ah yeah i was wondering, dont think ive ever seen ngatai at anywhere other than 12 or 15 but i get ye

i think moving frawley back to 10 would just be another carbery situation tbh, hes a great player and can do a job at 10 if needed but hed be much better utilised elsewhere. think ross byrne comes in for a serious amount of unfair criticism too tbh, hes very good 90% of the time, but i think leinster (and Ireland) are so reliant on JS as a leader that any other 10 is on a hiding to nothing. that, combined with his poor performances coming in games where the rest of the leinster (again, and ireland) team were fairly terrible, means theres a very unfair and pessimistic view of his abilities