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JSA suspended and no idea why

  • 18-06-2022 5:17pm
    #1
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,239 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    I got suspended from JSA - found out today when I went to check my bank balance before food shopping and saw that there was no payment made for Thursday. Checked MyWelfare and says it was suspended. I swear they would treat criminals better.

    I can see absolutely no reason why this could have happened. I'm signing on when asked, I'm keeping them updated on my work to build a small business which they are totally on board with and I'm heavily engaged with Paul Partnership and Turas Nua.

    Could something automatic have tripped the suspension? It's odd because we got a letter on Friday we are approved for Back to School allowance and that's all ok.

    I'm stressed to my gills so anyone with insight, I'd really appreciate it.



Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,051 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    This is Dreadful OP and as I've mentioned before, for some inexplicable reason the Department arbitrarily suspend people's payment without telling them or at least notifying claimants there's an issue that they may need to address. It's a disgraceful way to treat people.

    There's so many reasons why a payment can be suspended, even in error (I hope this might be the reason) and it would be impossible to list possible reasons.

    Unfortunately you'll have no option but to make immediate contact with your local Intero centre on Monday to find out what is going on. I can't be sure if you can at least apply for a temporary payment under the SWA payment, until this is resolved , but make contact ASAP.

    I wish I could offer more advice, maybe someone who's gone through this might come on and offer further advice.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,261 ✭✭✭Gant21


    Is it because of your income of your business.



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,239 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    Thanks, both.

    @Dempo1 Thanks, I've already sent a letter to my case officer who knows everything and is happy for me to build a business that is "my way of getting back to work". The only thing I did in the last few weeks was to register myself for income tax as part of getting myself and the business ready for paying any taxes due at year-end.

    @Gant21 I'm not currently drawing any money from the business - hopefully in the next three months. It started with almost no capital or assets and I have been building by reinvesting every single cent on stock and marketing. I had agreed with my case officer that I would sit down with an inspector a number of months down the line to see how we were doing, and if doing well, we could look to reduce JSA payments by a percentage as the business starts to generate an income.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,051 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Morning, I kinda knew you weren't drawing any income and fully aware of how it works when not only engaging fully but developing a self employment option, which I commend you for 😉

    My initial thought and its a guess, this suspension could be because your now technically self employed by the decision to register as such despite no income being drawn, in a sense, and as such it may be a case the department are now looking at you differently from a JSA eligibility point of view, I'm aware self employed have entitlements to SW supports but don't know enough about them and it may be the case you'll have to move to a different support payment. What I'm confused by is the department are fully aware of your intentions and your clearly not in receipt of income yet.

    This all said, it does not excuse what's happened, particularly your obvious engagement and indeed efforts to explore self employment opportunities.

    I'm confident something will be sorted it's how long it takes is the problem. Hopefully there'll be a quick resolution for you. Again make sure you explore an emergency payment to tie you over until this is resolved.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,239 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    Thanks for the Sunday morning reply, I'm a little less anxious now. Yeah, I think the most likely thing is that the system has automatically flagged something and used the usual "guilty until proven innocent" method of suspending payment to get someone's attention.

    I'm sick of their threatening letters to suspend my payments (red ink for extra effect) because of mistakes on their end, their absolute lack of responsibility and the anonymous mail recipients that I send stuff to, sometimes to silence.

    I was literally told by the support organizations I was a breath of fresh air because I was executing and not just talking about plans at every meeting.

    I am really close to being off JSA which makes this all the more galling. When I was on JSB, I was treated like a professional, the MOMENT I went to JSA, I was treated like a criminal that they expect to try and screw the system.

    EDIT: I will say that the SWA team, who stepped in the last time Intreo fcuked up (someone forgot to submit my payslip at their end and blamed me for not submitting) were fantastic. They were embarrassed for me that it happened and they got the payment to me very quickly.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,261 ✭✭✭Gant21


    Threatening letters from the social welfare department? That’s a serious accusation to make.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,051 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    I've been watching the state benefits Forum for quite some time, I'm no experts (there's actually a few contributions who are with specific issues) and I see stories similar to yours all the time. We hear constantly about all the free money, Layabouts, Scroungers etc, it disgusts me, particularly when I see many genuine stories of struggle and more importantly people like you who are an example to others.

    The SW system bureaucracy can be brutal, especially towards those on JSA but has you say, there are units within it, ESPECIALLY illness benefit section that are incredibly helpful.

    I do believe your situation will be resolved quickly and I sincerely wish you well in your endeavours 😁

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 687 ✭✭✭Housefree


    It's either you forgot to sign on or the switch between JSA and the Back To Work Enterprise Allowance is happening and you will be paid Tuesday



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,051 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    I think your correct re BTWEA, but surely should this not have been discussed with OP given active engagement 🤔

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,261 ✭✭✭Gant21


    Threatening letters isn’t active engagement. Op you need to contact the social welfare department tomorrow.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,051 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    OP ignore a particular poster , well known for stirring it , clearly hasn't a clue and wasn't actually trying to assist you in their original response, just trolling as per usual.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,239 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    The very odd thing is I have received no communication I am being switched to BTWEA and honestly was told I’m not eligible given the fact my business does not meet some of the requirements.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,261 ✭✭✭Gant21


    What requirements is your business not meeting?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,051 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    It's really only a guess re BTWEA and it may not be at the root cause of what's happened, your payment has been suspended not Closed. Honestly it's really only guess work trying to determine the cause of this issue, you've done the right thing , touching base with your case officer but would definitely contact local intero centre in the AM , you'll at least get some sense of what the issue may be.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    OP, ignore this poster. Known dole crank who thinks everyone is on the take.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 687 ✭✭✭Housefree


    Did you miss signing on last Tuesday?

    Unless 'keeping them updated on my work to build a small business' has been flagged as you working.

    What requirements did you not meet for BTWEA? They are pretty easy-going with it because it gets you off the live register and who knows what kinda business will work.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,051 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    There was no missed signing mentioned in OP or since, OP Has fully explained full engagement.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,051 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,239 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    I haven’t received any request to sign on, either via post or online as far as I have seen.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,165 ✭✭✭stargazer 68


    OP the whole system is flawed imo.

    My husband doesn't qualify for JSA or JSB so basically 40 years working counts for nothing.

    And yes he is looking for work. Cv's sent, agencies met etc but noone wants an almost 60 year old now!



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I would be 99% confident that your registering with Revenue triggered this review, (some systems between Revenue and DSP are linked) and that they are now checking into your eligibility under the "available and seeking full time work" rule, which is part of the qualifying criteria for Job Seekers Allowance.

    Get in touch with them directly on Monday. If you are building a business, maybe a different payment (e.g. BTWEA) would be more appropriate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,051 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Can I ask , slightly off thread topic but would he not have been entitled to JSB initially, did he work in Ireland, JSB based on contributions and not means tested 🤔 even if self employed here he'd be entitled to something, obviously if he worked abroad, slightly more complicated.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 687 ✭✭✭Housefree


    They have no restrictions on pivoting (changing) your business model after you meet the requirements of BTWEA, they don't care & they don't check. I'm not condoning unethical behavior, but businesses pivot the whole time. And having BTWEA is a serious help for getting started. So get back to checking on that as well



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 328 ✭✭gerogerigegege


    if youre doing a course there could be a transitional period, suspended in error maybe?

    any of your cirumstances changed? go on a holiday? =



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 328 ✭✭gerogerigegege


    disgusting. sounds like he will pick up something going by his good work record.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,051 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    I did wonder about the registration with Revenue as being a possible reason but again OP was fully engaged and obviously getting advice from business set up professionals. I understand there is sharing of Data with Revenue but primarily on any income being reported basis , there has been no income and the "Must be looking for work rule" is more to check claimants are making applications etc, I get OP is moving from PAYE to self employed.

    Whilst technically OP is moving towards Self employment, DSP and the case manager are fully aware of this and its seems illogical to have a payment suspended given all the info , OP has provided, OP should have been advised if there was going to be a change in payment type or suspension.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,165 ✭✭✭stargazer 68


    No because he got PUP and then the company closed he didn't pay enough contributions for the period required.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,051 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Sorry to here that , I'm assuming he got redundancy bur even if he did that's irrelevant.

    I'm sure you've checked this but are you aware assessment for JSB is done for contributions made 2 years previous, so if he claimed for JSB n 2022 , they look at 2020 contributions. Also for every week he was on PUP at contribution was credited/paid . It gets a little technical but he should request a copy of a statement of contributions in 2020 or if he as a mywelfare account, its available in there.

    I know he may have been through this but really should be entitled to something, even If means tested.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    One thing about being a civil servant. You have absolutely no discretion when it comes to the rules. And rules may not always be logical.

    I'm not suggesting the OP has done anything wrong. But I am wondering how much discretion the op's case worker has taken with the OP's case as the "must be available for, and actively seeking full time work" condition for JSA is one of those non-negotiables where there is no discretion.

    If the OP is spending all his time building up a business instead of applying for jobs, no matter what his case worker says, he no longer meets the criteria for JSA. His registering as self-employed will most likely have triggered this review, as income from self-employment is assessed towards JSA.

    I'm sure it will be sorted out quickly.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,051 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    O I absolutely agree and I saw alot of this issue you mention come up for self employed during the pandemic etc , I'm just surprised at the lack of notification re suspension of payment and I've seen many examples of really poor communication re cutting off people's payments, obviously some decisions justifiable and we don't know the full story in every case but as many cases of payments being stopped inexplicably.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,239 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    The only other thing I can think of is I did two days work in November. I sent all my forms and slips to Intreo and the anonymous person on the other end forgot to log it. Payment suspended without warning.

    That was 6 months to almost the day. I wonder if there was something like a 6 month time limit when the unsuspended me.

    I totally understand why people are happy to just sit on their arses and get the dole because working with them to get off it has been a horrendous, degrading experience. I can imagine it’s way easier to just lie and pretend than actually engage.



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,239 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    @gerogerigegege no change in circumstances and haven’t been out of country once since going on JSB/JSA. Lol have barely been outside of Limerick more than half a dozen times in 2 years.



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,239 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    The only other thing, and this is a possibility, is that I’ve stepped on another particular businesses toes and they are attempting to nip me in the bud. They may have reported me for welfare fraud hoping I wasn’t a legit business (which I am, incorporated nearly a year).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,051 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    I don't believe this has anything do with current situation.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,051 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Definitely not OP fraud allegations dealt with by investigations unit and you'd be aware pretty quickly if your under investigation vexatious allegations identified pretty quickly.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    100% agree, no one should ever have their payment suspended without at least some advance warning.

    I didn't think they still did that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,051 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Unfortunately I've seen a lot of it across the forum , in normal times people might survive a few days but this is not normal times 🙄😏

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 53,822 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    Long shot but OP did you get a letter from the department around this time asking for details of this employment.

    Sometimes there is an automated task that suspends a claim if no response after an allocated period, if the officer that received your response to this forgot or omitted to remove the task on this it would create a claim suspension. Easily resolved with a call to the Intreo office but it's frustrating I know.

    Honestly 90% of these issues are easily resolved with a call or email to the claim area so I'd hop down to them tomorrow and they should be able to shed light on the issue. A lot of automation goes on behind the scenes that isn't even looked at until there's a problem like in this case.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,051 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,239 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    Nope, I was informed that revenue had informed them that I had been working (or something to that effect) and threatened to cancel my payment unless I sent them the information they asked for (payslips etc). The information I had sent weeks earlier that some idiot couldn't bother filing correctly. It sounded in the letter like I was working behind their backs.

    They know exactly what I'm doing and that this is my full-time employment - one that may be hiring before the end of the year with a little luck.



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  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,239 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    Thanks to everyone who shared advice.

    It was a system flag from the previous employment. I did nothing wrong but I had my payment suspended. Again.

    This system needs change.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,051 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Great , at least you have a sense of what the issue is and hopefully the problem can be rectified quickly 😏

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,239 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    Yep, all sorted very quickly but had to go into to meet them rather than discuss over phone. The person was very nice and could see the issue straight away. Will get missed payment Wednesday and back to normality Thursday.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,051 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Fantastic, there's always a solution to every problem (eventually) 😏

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,051 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    At the same time, it's good to know there are checks and balances built into the system to prevent (genuine) overpayments.

    Glad you got sorted, OP 👍



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,239 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    I am all for checks, but I am not on for cutting people off as their way of acting on it. Call me, ask me, send me a letter. Don't cut off my payment without any warning a week before my mortgage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,261 ✭✭✭Gant21


    Some departments are under staffed and the walk in offices do be swarmed in paper work. Every one is trying their best. You got your money so you got your result op that’s all that matters.



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