Dublin Pride ends media partnership with RTE over Liveline's Gender Identity discussion

Post reported. You actually got me listen to listen to Joe Duffy.

I understand your need to be outraged about this but this might enlighten you about what committees do. I've watched these committees in action from time to time. It's generally soporific but mostly useful stuff. BTW anyone, including you or I, can make a submission to a committee.

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt but you're literally trolling at this stage

I wouldn't consider agreeing with the majority that there's some sort of agenda against trans-people as biased. What I don't agree with however is the self entitlement of some individuals who get passive aggressive when someone else has a different opinion to them, which is the point you seem to disagree with and that there is my starting point.

Are we not living in an open democracy where free speech is permitted and not to be silenced in either fear of offense or retribution. In order to move forward we need to debate and if we cant do that we stagnate. What's happening at the moment is not helping either cause, would you agree?

Could you give me some examples that trans-people are not being regarded as being of equal status under Irish law? Also what did you disagree with in the Joe Duffy segment that the majority of people found to be an open and honest debate? I wouldn't consider a biased view as a meaningful discussion. I'm delighted to hear you only assume I would think that way because at the end of the day are we not all human and therefore should be treated any differently?

I wouldn't consider agreeing with the majority that there's some sort of agenda against trans-people as biased. What I don't agree with however is the self entitlement of some individuals who get passive aggressive when someone else has a different opinion to them, which is the point you seem to disagree with and that there is my starting point. 

I don’t disagree with you on that point at all though. I posted earlier that I rarely encounter assholes, but that’s not based upon their characteristics, it’s based upon their behaviour.

Are we not living in an open democracy where free speech is permitted and not to be silenced in either fear of offense or retribution. In order to move forward we need to debate and if we cant do that we stagnate. What's happening at the moment is not helping either cause, would you not agree?

Not entirely. We live in a representative democracy where freedom of expression is a right afforded to all citizens, but it is a limited right, meaning that nobody has absolute freedom to say whatever they like. I explained the idea of freedom of speech as it applies in Irish law, in this post -

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119213820#Comment_119213820

I don’t see any reason why anyone needs to debate anything in order to move forward tbh, people are moving forward without needing to ask for anyone’s permission or approval to do so. The people who are calling for a debate, are generally the people who want to stop people moving forward, they want to pretend that this is new, when people who are transgender have always been part of Irish society - it was just that prior to the Gender Recognition Act in 2015, they had no legal recognition in Irish law. It was because of this, that it took 20 years, three legal battles in the Irish Courts, and finally Ireland being told that they were in violation of European Human Rights standards, before our Government finally introduced the Gender Recognition Act. They didn’t want to, they were forced to, because of prior agreements they had made with Europe which meant they had to uphold their obligations under the European Convention on Human Rights Act of 2003 -

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2003/act/20/enacted/en/print.html

Could you give me some examples that trans-people are not being regarded as being of equal status under Irish law? This is what I'm referring too about a meaningful discussion. I'm delighted to hear you only I assume I would think that way because at the end of the day are we not all human and therefore should be treated any differently?

Yep, the very Act that kicked off the whole recent furore that really couldn’t be said constituted a “debate”; the Maternity Protection Act 1994 does not extend protection to people who are recognised as male in Irish law (that they hold a gender recognition certificate), when they become pregnant. The proposed amendment to current legislation, is intended to extend this protection to people who are not currently protected by existing legislation -

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1994/act/34/enacted/en/html

Extension of maternity leave entitlements to transgender men

The General Scheme proposes to provide for the right of a transgender male who has, in accordance with the Gender Recognition Act 2015, obtained a gender recognition certificate and subsequently becomes pregnant, to fall within the scope of the Maternity Protection Act 1994.

https://www.lewissilkin.com/en/insights/ireland-key-points-from-the-recently-announced-work-life-balance-and-miscellaneous-provisions-bill

There are people who argue that extending this protection to people who are transgender, is an attempt to erase women from Irish legislation, but it’s clearly not doing any such thing. It’s scope is specifically limited to employees who become pregnant, who are entitled to maternity leave, with the effect that they are regarded as being of equal status in Irish law, and entitled to the same protection of their maternity and employment rights under Irish law. It places an obligation on employers to uphold employees rights, as opposed to the idea that it has any impact whatsoever on women or women’s rights -

Once implemented employers will need to review and amend their family and caring leave policies to ensure they are compliant with the new legislation. As with the right to request remote work, we expect the government will issue guidance to employers on how to handle requests for flexible working arrangements and that policies will be required or recommended.

(same source as above)

I include sources and supporting evidence in my posts because prior to doing so, I would post an opinion and it would be followed by a barrage of “Source? Source? Have you a link for that?” type comments, which appeared to be motivated by a desire to stagnate any discussion and bog the discussion down in semantics, arguing over the meaning of words and definitions of language and all the rest of it, as opposed to any attempt to engage in meaningful discussion. Providing sources with my posts just saves everyone the trouble of asking for them, they can read the sources provided for themselves, in their own time.

I actually didn't understand one word they said!

Pretty much exactly!

Tag rugby which I use to play was a great idea. Loads of fun.

As far as I'm concerned, then, my points regarding sport stand.

There’s a shocker 😂

People can decide for themselves who they think has the better points.

Are you sure now? Do other people have your permission to think for themselves?

It should surely be obvious at this point that regardless of what anyone else thinks or tries to argue, their opinions have no bearing on people who disagree with them who want to include people who are transgender in their organisations and activities, including a sports team which is inclusive of people who are transgender, and doesn’t prohibit anyone from playing on the team and participating in the sport on the basis of their gender, sex or sexual orientation.

You might as well be pissing into the wind as trying to argue that anyone is justified in attempting to deprive other people of their rights, when the rights anyone is afforded exist in Irish law, and conflicts are adjudicated upon through the legal system, not the court of public opinion.

There are standards you have to meet to compete in the olympics, the vast vast majority of women cannot reach the standard set for men in the vast majority of sports, there is no issue with women aspiring to meet those standards and compete if they do, they would have to have reached a standard higher than a man to do so and would deserve their place.

There issue is trans women wanting to compete against biological women as they have an inherent advantage, they can meet the womans standard and will dispose a biological female from taking her rightful place in a completion through their biological advantage of being born male.