Russia - threadbanned users in OP

relax carry on · 19-06-2022 11:42am

Can we all just agree that Russia invading another sovereign state, raping and killing it's citizens and destroying it's infrastructure is a bad thing which must be stopped? If we can, then as Russia doesn't do diplomacy, that leaves sanctions and direct (military) action to force them to stop. Sanctions have to come from the rest of the world to curtail Russia's ability to wage war. At the same time to prevent further loss of territory and loss of civilian life in Ukraine; materials for war must be supplied to Ukraine as they are the only ones physically fighting against the destruction of their own country. It's no surprise the US is involved in the sanctions and military supplies response because it's a world power who can inflict sanctions and supply materials of war.

The constant what about the US and what they have done through history is just tiring at this point. If you want, go set up a thread where you can what about to your heart's content. Right now the US and the rest of those supporting Ukraine are helping keeping it from been wiped off the map by a rogue nation. When the dust settles, historians can argue the toss over this conflict somehow being related to US imperialism. For now unless your hatred of the US has blinded you to what Russia is doing, you should be hoping the US and other countries ramp up the sanctions and military supplies to utterly break Russia.

briany · 19-06-2022 12:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119222659#Comment_119222659

Macron is right when he says the conflict must end with talks, but it's a truism, really. All conflicts end in talks, but not all talks end in compromise. Sometimes it's just unconditional surrender. This is what Russia appears to be after. If not unconditional surrender then at least leaving Ukraine as a vassal of Russia which can never ever asset its sovereignty again. Is Russia willing to offer Ukraine concessions? If yes, then talks are a possibility. If not, then negotiation has to happen on the battlefield if the will is there to fight.

What the trolls are saying is that Ukraine must give Russia what it wants because it will get what it wants eventually, so might as well avoid the bloodshed. Taking this point, however, you'd do well to ask why wars should happen at all. Would it not be better for any country just to lay down arms in the event of an invasion lest some people die? Why fight at all? Why has anyone ever fought in history?

If Russia are willing to come to the table with some good-faith compromises, then real talks can happen, but they're so backward in their 'hur-hur me stronk' thinking, they won't even countenance compromise until they've been fought to a standstill. They seem to understand no other language.

19-06-2022 1:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119221694#Comment_119221694

I’d take America over Russia any day. I’ve always thought Putin is a evil warped little man long before he invaded Ukraine. He’s had lots of cheerleaders in the West for years, particularly from conservatives, a complete reversal of the USSR days when most of his western cheerleaders were far left idiots. Tucker Carlson said on his show lots of times he was for Russia vs Ukraine just before the large scale invasion so Putin still has a lot of support in the US from conservative types even if they’re not as vocal now. Putin already revealed what he was before February so nothing will change that.

You do make a worthwhile point but Russia IMO is a lot worse than the US. America and Britain illegally invaded Iraq under false pretext’s. Poor planning and the power vacuum that followed lead to IS filling the gap and destroying large swathes of the Middle East, which directly lead to the refugees crisis in Europe a number of years ago which coincidentally probably pushed Brexit over the line.

American and British troops did commit war crimes there. Under the Trump administration the US relaxed rules of engagement when it came to taking precautions around bombings that may impact civilians and concealed the death toll from resultant bombs. They and the UK arm Saudi Arabia to teeth to bomb the sh it out of Yemen with no concern for Yemeni civilians. Which is why I find it a bit mad that golfers are getting such a tough time competing in the Saudi backed tournament when their governments arm Saudi and nothing is said about that.

They all have atrocities but America is definitely the best of a bad bunch. I’d rather live in a world with America as top dogs than Russia or China. That’s for sure.

zv2 · 19-06-2022 1:29pm

This is ominous Belarus: We Will Have To React To Poland's Desire To Take Western Ukraine | Open Source Live Intelligence (OSLINT) - Intel, News & Alerts

Danzy · 19-06-2022 1:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119223045#Comment_119223045

Belarus are buying up every heavy horse in Europe for their cavalry.

Strazdas · 19-06-2022 1:36pm

All of the talk about Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan ignores the point that western public has massively turned against those interventions and regards them now as huge mistakes.

Tony Blair saw his reputation and political legacy completely destroyed by the invasion of Iraq. George Dubya left office with some of the lowest aproval ratings ever. The Putin fans on social media (invariably drawn from the far right or the extreme left) with their non stop 'whataboutery' are speaking as if those wars and interventions are somehow popular in the West, when they are regarded with disgust in fact.

briany · 19-06-2022 1:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119223045#Comment_119223045

Real footage of a Belarussian tank on manoeuvres

Wait until to fit it with a forward gear. Then they'll really be cooking. Mainly because the engine is situated too close to the crew compartment.

Anyway, Lackey Lukashenko is f*cked if he orders Belarussian troops directly into the conflict at this point, and they'd be blown to bits against a well-equipped Polish army. The only point Lukashenko gets involved with good results for him is at any point where it looks like Russia is about to win and he can move troops in for the photo op. Kind of like that guy who pretends to help you move something heavy just by putting a hand to it right as you finish.

19-06-2022 1:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119223072#Comment_119223072

I think public opinion was mostly against Iraq war at the time anyway. So not much has changed there. No one was held accountable for that either. Bush and Blair got off Scott free. Putin fan boys will always be scum.

Strazdas · 19-06-2022 1:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119223080#Comment_119223080

Indeed, but the tone from the Putin fan boys when they speak about people in the West is that they are mostly war loving imperialists and hypocrites who had no problem with Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan etc while they were happening. It's a total distortion of what was actually happening - Blair was an absolute pariah by the time of the Chilcott report.

The Putin bots in the West are way more nasty and sociopathic than even those who were supporting the invasion of Iraq in 2003, making their 'whataboutery' completely meaningless. They are extremists and potential security risks.

Yurt2 · 19-06-2022 2:14pm

Slightly off-topic but as we were discussing the Russian GRU officer in Trinity and Ireland's vulnerability to this kind of activity...

The Sunday Times reporting today that a Chinese origin British citizen that was the subject of an MI5 warning of being a Chinese government agent attempting political influence operations in the UK met with Irish Department of Justice officials...

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/chinese-spy-met-justice-officials-to-discuss-irish-visas-jmjx9xjb3

Say my name · 19-06-2022 2:14pm

Did we ever hear any more from General Putinovich and his band of merry Zeds.?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=xTuZlDOovT8

19-06-2022 2:37pm

Anyone saying Ukraine should surrender can really go and **** themselves. This isn't a regime change, it's ethnic fuckin cleansing like it or not. Quibble about whether it's genocide if you like but their goal is to wipe out Ukrainian culture anywhere they can. Replace the currency, put in a new "government", detain people for speaking Ukrainian, deport 10s (likely hundreds but I'll await confirmation) of thousands of people to **** Siberia. And criticising Ukraine for not sticking to agreements kinda feels a bit hollow ever since Russia poured over the border.

What would Britain do if Ireland banned the use of the English language? They'd laugh their bollocks off and a couple of their old-school civil servants would be straight on to the EU for some rules loosening and trading and Britain (London) would hoover up another bunch of high-paying jobs. FFS.

zv2 · 19-06-2022 4:38pm

This might explain why they are talking about a long war???-

https://twitter.com/SerialTrader72/status/1538539761874370560?s=20&t=u2-EbHHg1_sKm8x_d0t3Pw

19-06-2022 5:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119223593#Comment_119223593

Or maybe it'll be a long war because the Russians are fine with sacrificing their young men while the Ukrainians don't want to be wiped off the map? Maybe?

I mean seriously ffs have some critical thinking, Zelensky can "stop this" any time he wants. Europe pretty much washed their hands of the whole thing til the Ukrainians showed that they weren't prepared to be a paragraph in a history book in a generation's time. Europe basically told him to surrender. The yanks offered him safe passage out. For all the talk of outside interference there was feck all at the start aside from the Yanks warning the invasion was imminent and being called warmongers for telling the clear and obvious truth.

Are the arms manufacturers doing well out of this? You betcha. Was it expected? Did anyone at the start of February think that by this point we'd be hearing anything other than horror stories coming out of Ukraine and a puppet government set up in Kyiv with widespread partisan activities trying to stymie any pretence of Russia having total control.

zv2 · 19-06-2022 6:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119223797#Comment_119223797

If by Zelenskyy stopping this you mean surrender, forget it. If they surrender they will be taken to the death camps. There's no way the Russians can be allowed to have Ukraine. And ceding territory is just a hiatus. They'll come back emboldened and want more.

19-06-2022 6:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119224028#Comment_119224028

Exactly, and that's why it'll be a long war. Not because of something Assange said about Afghanistan a few years ago.

odyssey06 · 19-06-2022 7:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119224028#Comment_119224028

Exactly. The only way ceding territory would work is if Ukraine gets NATO membership or cast iron protection guarantees for military aid fro, NATO powers.

Otherwise it won't be peace, just a truce to allow Russia to re-arm and come back again.

kevthegaff · 19-06-2022 8:13pm

It gives China permission also, start a bad precedent

TheValeyard · 19-06-2022 9:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119224365#Comment_119224365

If China goes after Taiwan I'd be 99% sure there'd be US planes in the air, ships and sea and boots on the ground. Taiwan is increasingly important to Western strategic interests.

19-06-2022 9:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119223045#Comment_119223045

Ominous like a white blanket thrown over a three year old shouting… Boo!

luke is saying he has warded off a Polish attack. Poles haven’t attacked, ergo he is a hero.

Typical weak dictator ploy.

There is zero chance he attacks Poland.

shivaz · 19-06-2022 9:15pm

Kazakhstan president Tokayev going against putin again in an interview today.

Kadyrov the goat from Chechnya was defending putin after Tokayev's insult to putin at the forum at the weekend.Kadyrov said "Who saved Belarus? Russia. Who saved Kazakhstan? Russia. Who stopped the war between Armenia and Azerbaijan? Russia. And when Russia needs it, everyone is silent – you are afraid of sanctions"

Tokayev said "it was not Russia that saved Kazakhstan, but the CSTO", so you should not try on the role of a "savior", because no one is going to "serve and bow at the feet" for this".

This relationship is going downhill.Russia want Kazakhstan to help with sanctions but they have said they wont help.Kazakhstan has a weak army so can not stand up to Russia in a fight but everything is changing.The Kazakhstan public are against the war and the president is with them.......for now.

On the battlefield a command centre near Kharkiv was destroyed

https://twitter.com/WarMonitor3/status/1538597024681148416?s=20&t=TC8fDwJMPIur7bJrksa8kw

Say my name · 19-06-2022 10:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119224617#Comment_119224617

I think they're fairly fed up of Putin holding them for ransom and cutting off their oil and gas flows to Europe at will.

With new US, Iran relations it looks like a pipeline through Iran may be on the cards again. Bypassing Russia to Western markets.

19-06-2022 10:28pm

I’m dedicating this post to Daly and Wallace, the de escalate and surrender crowd, the “realists” in international relations, the supporters of colonialism. Here you go:

19-06-2022 10:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119224911#Comment_119224911

Why don't they just surrender?

19-06-2022 10:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119224936#Comment_119224936

Because they are better people than those who advocate it. To answer your next “question”: better in every way that matters. To answer your next contribution: the ways that matter are the ways that matter. I’m sure you’ve figured it out now.