Dublin Pride ends media partnership with RTE over Liveline's Gender Identity discussion
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If anyone should be attending an Oireachtas committee it should be TENI.
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RTE as an organisation, would engage with Dublin Pride, as an organisation, because it is beneficial to them in some way to do so. Generally it comes down to whether or not any media partnerships RTE enters into will generate revenue for the loss-making organisation receiving CPR from the license fee and public funding, because as a national broadcaster, it has never been commercially viable -
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2022/0120/1274782-oireachtas-committee-rte/
Positive representation means all the things you mentioned, and a good example of RTE as an organisation honouring their commitment to Dublin Pride to do so, was the inclusion of a guest on Brendan O’ Connor’s show recently, who is transgender. For someone so young, they have achieved quite a bit in their lives already, so they made an interesting guest, apart from anything else. Also the fact that they have 1.2 million followers on TikTok was undoubtedly a considerable influence in the decision to invite them on the show. RTE aren’t stupid, they want to appeal to as broad an audience as possible -
The LGBT community DO have an entitlement to positive representation from and by RTE, everyone does, and particularly so when RTE makes a public commitment to do so. This was RTE supporting Pride in 2021 with a comprehensive line-up of programming content -
Official Media Partner to Dublin Pride | Proud to stand. Proud to party.
www.RTE.ie/Pride | #Pride #RTEPride #virtualprideparade
RTÉ is again celebrating Pride and our official partnership with Dublin LGBTQ+ Pride with a comprehensive programme of content across RTÉ.ie, RTÉ 2FM, and RTÉ Player.
RTÉ’s programme of specially produced Pride-themed content includes:
And it goes on to list some of their programming -
https://about.rte.ie/2021/06/18/rte-supporting-pride-2021/
This is RTE honouring their commitments in 2022 -
https://www.rte.ie/eile/lgbtq/
It’s neither counterproductive, nor is it undemocratic that RTE, as Ireland's National Public Service Multi-Media Broadcaster / Organisation, accede to anyone’s or any groups demand that they are represented positively, particularly when RTE themselves have committed to doing so. They have to really, because RTE are competing for audiences with much bigger and better funded players in the market, the likes of entertainment providers like Sky and Virgin.
Just to give you an example, this is RTE trying to put a positive spin on utterly dismal ratings for what, I’ll be honest, wasn’t the worst show I’ve ever seen, but even the presence of Maura Higgins just wasn’t enough to have more people watch it -
"Glow Up Ireland has been doing really well on RTÉ Player - with over 60K streams for eps 1-3 to date, making the top 15 most popular shows on RTÉ Player since launch."
That’s really not saying much. Joe Duffy’s figures DROPPED by that much last year -
The figures found Joe Duffy’s Liveline’s audience saw a drastic drop of 58,000 listeners from 404,000 to 346,000 this year.
https://www.thesun.ie/news/8035760/rte-claire-byrne-joe-duffy-listeners-jnlr-ryan-tubridy/amp/
If RTE don’t enter into media partnerships with various groups in Irish society to produce content that people want to consume, it becomes that much more difficult for them to fund themselves as an organisation, and then they require even more public funding as their current model of financing themselves just isn’t sustainable long-term in the current market.
I don’t mind paying the license fee which is used to cover some of the cost of RTE, even though I rarely ever bother with it, but the public do have a right to complain when RTE are using public funds to produce the kind of crap programming that fuels prejudice and discrimination against already marginalised groups in Irish society.
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Does not look good for TENI and probably why they have such an issue with the countess.
This thing of getting trans women to speak in the place of actual women on women's day and giving them awards for women's categories is very wrong in my eyes. Imagine you are up for a chance of an award for writing and you find out your are 2nd place to trans woman, I don't know about anyone else but it feels like another way to block women.
If you grown up as a male and go through puberty as male we all know it effects muscle, bone structure etc. It also must effects brain development and its male traits.
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...the public do have a right to complain when RTE are using public funds to produce the kind of crap programming that fuels prejudice and discrimination against already marginalised groups in Irish society.
No, a tiny number of trans activists and Dublin Pride.
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RTE are only supposed to benefit it’s viewers, citizens etc…. Not BE benefitted by anyone…
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The other trouble is that we're importing ideology wholesale when we don't have anything like the same logistics or safeguards. It takes tiny numbers to effect massive change in a place like Ireland.
What are those and who has them? The US certainly doesn't. Western culture has shown itself remarkably weak at resisting the extremes in social change over the last three decades. Just look at the way University campuses in the US were taken over by students, spouting utterly retarded notions while applying obvious double standards with the lecturers/professors being abused (those that weren't part of the madness). It was a complete breakdown of order, and restraint. Each of the major movements, whether it was woke, PC, race theory or the extreme ends of feminism, they've all managed to become firmly established in Western culture effecting horrible change with very little appreciation for the downsides. All in the name of personal rights, while squashing the rights of others. Sure, some of them have declined recently, but they each remained powerful influences, causing fear and misery for their targets.. for a rather long time. Some maintain a powerful following and are still spreading to other areas.
Tiny numbers manage it everywhere in the West because we've become too addicted to social media, and the internet. This manner of extremism is everywhere western... not just Ireland.
The Trans movement is little different than the other ones. Aggressive. Extremely hostile. Emotion/feelings trumps logic. etc. It's all there.. and has been done before.
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Around 10-years ago, I was concerned about the direction of the trans- question. Everyone at the time thought I was being hysterical and deluded. Now look at where we are, with incessant division and invective rhetoric and so forth.
You’re still being hysterical.
Calling you deluded was nasty though, I wouldn’t go that far.
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I said the public do have a right to complain. Anyone does, including Dublin Pride, and the group of people they represent in Irish society, while they are in a minority, they are equally entitled to complain, especially when RTE fails to honour its commitment to them.
For someone who talks about common sense and all the rest of it, you do appear to be in the habit of trying to complicate things.
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Just by sheer numbers things tend to have to be more in the open to make permanent change (there'll always be the back-alley types in the states though). There's pushback across the country and it's at least questioned. Though once a critical mass of the professionals go along with it that's basically it. It took decades of filling university faculties with these people to get the momentum going to make these changes. This is the fruition of it.
In Ireland you could have about a handful of people needed to sign-off on things to cover all of the few young trans people getting their genitals mutilated or their hormones fucked up. Tiny, tiny numbers of people in positions of power that didn't exist a decade or two ago. In the States they need to co-ordinate and network to get the momentum. They were way ahead of us but it only took the small number (and their army of smarmy feel-good friends) of extremists to get us to the same point at rapid speed. The commendation for sneaking through Trans stuff by piggybacking on the gay stuff is a good example, sliding the gender recognition stuff under the radar. In a larger country that would be less likely to fly IMO as more people would be poring over it.
I do think though on a more philosophical level, and been saying for years, that I think the "No Religion, No Politics" in "polite company" was a very under-rated way of doing things. By having politics at the forefront of everything, chasing trends, isn't a way to have considered, reasoned policy-making. The Yanks with their bloody bumper stickers, here with badges and pins to show you're a true ally, ugh. And to think people have an issue with the term "virtue signalling". 😂
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TBH I've never really gotten the representation argument. When I watch a movie, I've chosen what movie to watch, so.. it's on me if it features heterosexual actors... and honestly, it's very rare that I care. I watch the movie for the good acting and the story. If wanted a movie with a homosexual cast or storyline, well.. I'd go find something with it.
It's no different with RTE. I watch a variety of shows (not many admittedly. I'm more into Youtube) because they're entertaining, or interesting. I don't feel that there is any lack of LGBTQ related shows, because... if I want that, I can find it elsewhere. Again, honestly, I tend to find most shows featuring LGBTQ storylines to be rather shallow and contrived, rather than a storyline with natural connections between the people/content involved. It just makes me cringe.
I appreciate that others don't feel that way.. that they would like to see more such content. Grand. However, I feel that LGBTQ should become just another part of society, not elevated or distinguished in any way. And yet, I do often hear, not from LGBQ friends (I don't have any T friends in the West), but from the media about how we should be represented more... and I always think they've got the wrong focus... We want homosexuality to be normal. No different from being heterosexual. That it wouldn't be a distinctive feature that marks us apart, but rather that it involves complete acceptance. Just another normal.
The cries for representation seems the wrong focus for me because tribalism is real. We, as a society, don't really like that which is weird or very different. Oh, sure, people dabble but invariably something becomes merged/accepted within mainstream society, or is pushed to the outskirts.. and those on the outskirts face discrimination, hostility, etc. That's not something I want for LGBQ people. We've had more than enough of it already.
So, yeah, representation just seems to be designed to make us a target again. Reinforce the differences, and make everyone aware of them. Seems foolishly short-sighted to me. It would be nice if complete acceptance while recognising the differences were possible, but I don't think it is. Not now anyway. Our societies and cultures aren't there yet, and maybe we never will be.
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Well that’s certainly not true.
RTE employees benefit from their employment.
Contractors benefit from their employment.
Joe Duffy’s media company alone, benefits substantially from it’s association with RTE -
https://www.echolive.ie/nationalnews/arid-40794021.html
That’s not to mention how many organisations benefit from being commissioned to produce content for RTE, content that RTE hopes will generate revenue -
RTÉ works in partnership with independent producers to create many of Ireland’s favourite television programmes.
https://about.rte.ie/commissioning/
Do you want to try that again? Maybe it didn’t come out right the first time.
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But people have listened to it, and people have found examples of transphobia and hatred. Should anyone waste their time pointing them out to you
So, in less than 100 words, tell us what they are.
I'm betting you can't.
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I'm betting you didn't read the post you're quoting.
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It's weird reading your posts, they mostly come across how I would imagine I'd think if I were gay or "practicing" bisexual. 🤣
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I did read it. It wasn't difficult, you're posts are long winded but, don't fool yourself, you're no Dostoevski.
So, back up your claim and give us these examples of transphobia and hatred from those liveline broadcasts.
Or are you just a blowhard spoofer?
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I think for non physical careers like writing or in business, the biggest difference is going to be how society responds to you: male writiers still get published far more readily than female ones. And didn't Sarah Phillips, head of TENI, who's a trans woman, actually say that even after transitioning, she went for an interview as a male because she didn't feel she'd get "a fair crack" if she went as a woman?
So yes, I'm sure you're right that there's an effect of testosterone etc making males more "pushy" than females - in the same way as they tend to be a lot more violent - but I think the advantages they have as males in society need to be considered too.
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Just by sheer numbers things tend to have to be more in the open to make permanent change (there'll always be the back-alley types in the states though). There's pushback across the country and it's at least questioned. Though once a critical mass of the professionals go along with it that's basically it. It took decades of filling university faculties with these people to get the momentum going to make these changes. This is the fruition of it.
I'd say there was more of a domino effect. The universities filled with Marxism, and feminism.. which led to social change.. and then, the next movement came in, and the next.. each time with a portion of the previous movements transferring to form the foundation for the next. You see it fairly often that the main theorists of the woke craze were originally feminists. People get involved in crusades, and when their crusade achieves their aims or loses momentum, they shift over to another one. From the US we've seen a succession of nutty social movements, all originating with theorists in the universities, but then breaking out into society.
They were way ahead of us but it only took the small number (and their army of smarmy feel-good friends) of extremists to get us to the same point at rapid speed.
Agreed. Good points. I'd say the momentum was borrowed from other movements. For me, Trans has nothing to do with the LGB cause. Nothing at all. One is about sexuality, and while Identity is part of that, it's a minor one. Whereas Trans is mostly about identity and very very little to do with sexuality. But it borrowed the momentum of the LGB cause to give it credibility and tap into the guilt over mistreating homosexuals. It borrowed the momentum that already existed from somewhere else, and that's why it's gained so much influence today.
It is a small number of people driving this, but the associations people make when considering these issues is important. It's not a Trans debate we hear, it's a LGBTQ discussion. Except, the LGB aren't really involved, and the Q is more of a footnote.
By having politics at the forefront of everything, chasing trends, isn't a way to have considered, reasoned policy-making.
Again, completely agree. But then, I think politics is pure horseshite, and does nothing to represent the true interests of the population. It's an exercise in virtue signalling, playing one group off the other, while employing smoke and mirror tactics to avoid undue attention. It's simply amazing how much change is implemented in this country, without the electorate being even remotely involved, or even aware of what's happening.
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I gave them already, in the post you claim to have read -
For example the questions about insurance and so on, and Joe quipping in with his “but what about insurance for women? 123.ie”, when that had absolutely nothing to do with anything. The coach explained how insurance works, to the woman who was trying to make an issue out of nothing.
That didn’t work so she tried a different angle, maintaining that player safety was an issue, after the coach had already explained that they take player safety seriously and have revised their policies to be inclusive of everyone who wants to participate, regardless of their gender or sex.
STILL not good enough for that woman who wanted to present all sorts of hypothetical scenarios and pretend that these were issues that would prevent anyone who wanted to participate from doing so. Yet the coach who’s running the club, who’s involved in the sport, who deals with the participants and policies every day, he doesn’t know what he’s talking about, and the woman who was arguing against their involvement in sport does, based upon her own hypothetical scenarios and made-up issues that aren’t issues?
Ok that’s 183 words, but who’s counting?
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Um, not quite sure what you mean by that. You think I'm faking it? Pretending to be bisexual?
Oh, I'm not a dedicated bisexual.. my attractions/interests have shifted at different periods in my life... but I've dated both men and women quite a bit.
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Still can't figure out selective quoting but in relation to the Identity point, it somewhat reminds me of a good few years ago when my attitude was "I don't care if someone's gay, I just don't want to hear about it.". I know now that's usually something of a dog-whistle but I meant it how I said it. I wasn't going out of my way to be a dick if there were gay people around. I was propositioned in a few pubs a few times and replied with a "Not me buddy" and no harm done, did have to shove someone away who decided to put his hand on me after a no, but that's besides the point. Yeah, it's not like I was a raging homophobe but I noticed through my teens there was a conflation between homophobia and genuinely just not really giving a ****. That, along with the extremeness of the "gay" "identity" was making people uncomfortable quite a while ago.
At the same time I can see why the "identity" crowd would have been the loudest, it's basically a truism, and I can understand that yeah, people want to be themselves. It seemed to become a huge part of the movement which is probably why the Trans stuff has been able to so easily co-opt it.
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That's it???
After all the verbal diarrhea, that's all there is?
That's the transphobia and hate speech that caused the controvery??
And you think the outrage is justified?
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Ah no nothing like that, just like when ya hear about the women in their 60s coming out as lesbians (seems to be another one on they telly every week) after being in a straight marriage for 40 years I'm sure there's gotta be a huge amount of people who could be "bi" or somewhat bi but settled down early and it just became background noise as much as anything. I can imagine plenty of people who may have had some same-sex attraction at some point but once they were married it was pretty much irrelevant so it wouldn't necessarily be a part of their identity.
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I cannot see how growing up as a male is an advantage for a women's writing award. Or how a trans woman can speak as a woman at a conference when they have probably spent their teens and longer as a male. It makes no sense.
On another note I would be curious to know what happens if a male working in a place that has gender pay gaps has their wages changed to that of the women's level after transitioning.
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‘Verbal diarrhoea’? If that’s what you call a short post, I don’t know how you ever managed Dostoevsky (at least one of us can manage to get his name right).
What outrage btw? Far as I can see the only outrage which is still going strong is from blowhards on Boards claiming it’s an outrage that an organisation which didn’t accept being treated like a doormat chose to terminate it’s association with RTE, and other blowhards imagining RTE exists solely for their benefit 🙄
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They don’t benefit from their employment. They get compensated for their employment. For their work.
maybe you want to try it again,
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No I’m fine with stating that they benefit from their employment the first time. I’m sure you’ll try again though, so just to be clear about what I’m referring to -
Benefits Include
- On-site professional childcare facilities
- Group life and salary protection schemes
- Defined Contribution Pension Scheme\PRSA Scheme
- RTÉ Credit Union on-site
- Availability of membership to RTÉ Sports & Social Club, including on-site gymnasium, squash courts and fitness classes
- Educational Support Scheme
- Enhanced annual leave benefit
- Staff support services
- Bus/Rail Tax Saver Scheme
And that’s just the beginning -
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I don’t disagree with you on that point at all though. I posted earlier that I rarely encounter assholes, but that’s not based upon their characteristics, it’s based upon their behaviour.
I was referring to the vocal minority including @Annasopra whom you seem to agree with, even when she's throwing around insults giving the rest a bad name.
Not entirely. We live in a representative democracy where freedom of expression is a right afforded to all citizens, but it is a limited right, meaning that nobody has absolute freedom to say whatever they like. I explained the idea of freedom of speech as it applies in Irish law, in this post -
Your latter point in that post just contradicts with what you are after saying. Is that not an analogy to what's happening right now? If your opinion differs you are immediately cancelled. Can you not see what we are all trying to say here?
I don’t see any reason why anyone needs to debate anything in order to move forward tbh, people are moving forward without needing to ask for anyone’s permission or approval to do so. The people who are calling for a debate, are generally the people who want to stop people moving forward
So by your logic we should all just accept these new proposals and it doesn't matter who it effects? Unfortunately that's not how it works. If we don't have discussions about relevant issues including the Maternity Protection Act 1994 , how are people meant to be educated. You'd be surprised how many don't understand and therefore ignorant to the fact. In some ways its a very complex issue. You've already seen the reaction first hand in this thread
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Is that it? With all the various people Joe Duffy has interviewed over the years, these rambling conversations are the worst thing to hit Irish radio, since, when?
i can’t recall even the Irish bishops In the history of radio getting as worked up about anything on radio. On the likes of Chris Barry/Adrian Kennedy you could sometimes all kind of extremists, threats of violence etc. So, going by your quotes about the worst of the horrific conversations:
there were questions about insurance in sport
And Other hypotethical scenarios were raised
about issues with trans people in sports.
Right. So condemn these people and RTE. And anyone who interjects that’s it’s ok to debate these issues is just a stupid bigot, who is denying other human rights, nay, their “right to exist”. This seems more and more like a religion to me every day.
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Oh, I'd say that a lot of people are bi-curious... and TBF most bisexuals I've met have been female. Plenty of guys being bisexual, but it just seems that more women are flexible that way. No idea on the older women coming out. It's not something I've experienced.
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There’s plenty of discussion on boards already about the benefits of being in RTE. This isn’t anything new. When Todd Andrews went from heading CIE to RTE in 1966, he was asked what the difference was. Perhaps knowing he couldn’t change much (and he was quite a blunt person) he said “RTE carries more passengers”.
Its been poured over many times how employees become contractors for more money, then setup production companies and seem to find ways of selling their product back to RTE.
Is this now a bad thing because Joe Duffy interview some semi-gender critical people? Dublin Pride, (not Pride itself or LGBT individuals) were part of this RTE largesse with their partnership.
One of your earlier quotes:
“The LGBT community DO have an entitlement to positive representation from and by RTE, everyone does, and particularly so when RTE makes a public commitment to do so”.
I don’t think “everyone” has a entitlement to positive representation from the state broadcaster. Particularly extremists, be they racist, homophobic etc etc. Surely honest representation would be best for everyone.
But, going deeper than that, Dublin Pride is an organisation, not the LGBT community. And from conversations in recently days clearly doesn’t not represent the views of all LGBT people.
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