Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

And yet it still happens. Strange that you are so morally outraged when some country invade another country and inflict damage etc... and ignore many other examples which happened elsewhere. There was zero consequences for those who participated in last few military adventures.

I won’t be naming anyway as they would be taking too much space and most boardies get boarded with very long posts

Says the guy who asserts a lot but cannot evidence any of it.

Provide an independent source that Russia is a "liberal democracy", that Russia is not "anti-Semitic" & most importantly that the sources you provide to support that are not orders of magnitude more biased than the sources suggesting otherwise.

Fail to do so and add yet another false assertion to your list.

No that's a lie. I asked to you to show how Ukraine had violated the Budapest agreement.

You responded with lies about what happened in 2014 peddling conspiracy theory about a US coup utterly without foundation. A russian stooge was removed by the democratically elected Ukranian parliament because he was involved in corrupt dealings with russia to lock Ukraine into an unfavourable trade deal with Russia. Which are entirely irrelevent to the Budapest agreement.

You were repeatedly asked to point to the clause in Budapest which was violated by Ukraine.

You were unable to do so because you were lying then as you lie now.

Once again you provide no source for this claim despite lying earlier that you provide sources.

I then asked for a document which Ukraine signed committing it to not joining NATO.

This was obviously referring to Ukraine as a country.

You posted with an irrelevent piece of communist era from the ukranian 'state soviet', which is not Ukraine as a country.

Made even more irrelevent by the USSR's constitution which gave its 'republics' (republics in quotes as they were no such thing) the right to freely secede. Freely secede.

So all you're proven is that Russia, as the USSR's successor state can't abide by the USSR's own rules, or any international agreement it signs in its own name with your claim that:

"which was the only reason that Russia would withdraw from the territory to allow it to become a new state."

There you go. Clear violation of the USSR's constitution which allows Ukraine to freely secede.

Proven fact - Russia violated Budapest by invading Crimea.

And it can't do that because it is a gangster state, a muderous fascist dictatorship who kills its own citizens who oppose Putin - making a mockery of your claim that it is liberal democracy.

You are a proven liar and spreader of russian propaganda lies on this thread.

Russia denazify yourself.

You're reaching here fash and you know you are. You've trawled looking for lies and all you've come up with is this?

I quoted the wikipedia definition of Nazism as one poster was making up his own definition of what it was. It stated that a Nazi state is a state that has a disdain for Liberal Democracy and the parliamentary system. I stated that Russia is a Liberal Democracy that has a parliament. I can prove that it has parliament because it has a parliament. I can't prove it what kind of democracy it is as its a purely subjective subject. But it is a democracy with free elections in my opinion. I caveated this with a subjectivity statement that said "I'm sure you will all disagree".

On Anti Semitism, how do you "prove" a country is not anti semitic? I attempted by stating that Israel did not go along with the requests for Sanctions against Russia when asked and I stated they would not have done that if they felt that Russia was Anti Semitic in any way.

Why don't you "prove" that Ireland isn't anti-semitic if you can? Whatever you come up with I'm sure Alan Shatter and crew would wholeheartedly take issue with whatever you came up with.

That's because your request is unproveable. Its purely subjective.

Any others on my "list"? Please provide. Enlighten me.

Nonsense.

The Duma is the lower house of the Federal Assembly of Russia (parliament), the upper house being the Federation Council of Russia.(The parliament).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assembly_(Russia)

Next.

Exactly. Its completely subjective. But there are elections, opposition parties and a parliament. That is an uncomfortable fact. Not a lie.

Unlike Nazi Germany which had one party which was where this tiny part of the bigger debate started and I am now being given the Spanish Inquisition treatment over.

Yes but the issue here is whether I lie constantly or not. All that anyone could find to back up this lie that I lie is this side argument on Russians being Nazi's. I quoted the wiki definition of Nazism. We could argue all day and night about the details of Russia's "democracy" and what kind of democracy it is. But I did not lie by saying it has elections, opposition parties and a parliament.

It's quite a tedious claim to make as back up that I lie constantly. That's all anyone has. One subjective semantics disagreement. Not a lie.

Yes. And I agree its a heavily manipulated democracy. Wouldn't want to live in such a democracy. But that's not our argument here.

The point I am being given the Stasi interrogation over is my assertion that Russia is not a one party Nazi state. Which it isn't. Its a democracy, albeit a very far from perfect democracy. We can argue about how flawed that democracy is until Putin dies but that's not the what the issue is here.

There is a Russia thread in Current Affairs to discuss Russian democracy and its lack thereof, and the "he said-she said" stuff too.

In news that actually pertains to Ukraine, NATO chief Jens Stoltenberg says that the war in Ukraine could go on for years

No longer hopes of over by Christmas, or the Russian war economy collapsing. Not in the near future anyways. As always, the big losers here are the Ukrainians, with their economy decimated and the prospect of a several year long war in their eastern territory will certainly make concessions of some sort all the more likely.

Syria (and other conflicts) has shown that Russia doesn't care about right or wrong, losses, international condemnation, atrocities, sanctions and other things. They will grind a country into dust over as many years as it takes and they will see themselves as 100% in the right to do so.

The only way to stop them is to either roll over and die or to completely beat them down with a big stick like a rabid dog.

"Its a democracy, albeit a very far from perfect democracy. We can argue about how flawed that democracy is until Putin dies but that's not the what the issue is here."

Somewhat off the direct topic, but germane to the discussion of the invasion and military occupation of Ukraine nonetheless.

The assertion that Russia is a democracy is pure BS.

This assertion, of course, is all part of a thinly veiled attempt to deflect from the irredentist nature of the Russian regime. A tinpot pretend-democracy where opposition candidates who don't suit the Kremlin line, are prevented from standing in elections, or are murdered by the regime.

Democracy indeed.

It is as democratic as the former GDR, which had lots of " political parties", all aligned to the SED. Little wonder the voters called the practice of elections "falten gehen" (going to fold a piece of paper, it didn't matter what mark you made on the ballot, you just folded it and voted).

Unless Putin is removed from power from within, or the Russian economy collapses, its unlikely Ukraine will come out of this the victors. Sad but thats looking like the reality.

There hasn't been a conflict in recent times with 2 relatively modern armies like we are seeing now, and predictably there are heavy losses and slow gains on both sides. However Ukraine do not have the military firepower to reclaim their lost territories, nor do they have the logistics to get enough donated arms from NATO and utilise them effectively.

Russian long range missiles can hit Ukrainian railways, bridges, tunnels etc making the transport of heavy weapons from West to East Ukraine incredibly difficult. All the noise has been about MLRS and long range artillery since on the frontlines the Russians can simply bombard Ukrainian positions from afar, however before enough MLRS and howitzers can get moved to an effective range they need capable anti-missile defences, and sufficient ammunition.

And due to constant long range missile strikes from the Russians most arms producing factories in Ukraine itself have been bombed to sh*t. Which exacerbates their ammunition woes. What NATO need is to supply Ukrainians with such a vast number of heavy weapons at the one time so they cant possibly all get hit by long range strikes in transit across the country - but this doesnt play well politically, to admit that we are giving 150% of what Ukrainians need, because the expectation is it will get destroyed before it even gets used.