Russia - threadbanned users in OP

Some seems to be there now

Don't get your hopes up on that. The rot is deep in Germany, particularly within the SPD, the Social Democratic Party, of which chancellor Olaf Scholz is currently the head.

But even leaving aside the political inertia, the fact remains that the Bundeswehr, that's the German Armed Forces, whilst no longer as woefully desolate as they were in the mid 201s, is by no means ready for anything but the bare minimum in operations. The army in particular needs massive investments. Remember the MARS MLRS that Germany promised Ukraine? There are 40 launchers in the Bundeswehr inventory, but only 20 are operational according to media reports. As of 2019, 101 out of Germany's 245 Leopard 2 MBTs were operational, as were 76 out of a total of 284 Puma IFVs and 12 out of a total of 53 Tiger attack helicopters. Granted, that was three years ago and there was apparently some improvement in recent years, but those are horrible numbers. And mind you, those are all state of the art weapons systems, some less than ten years in service! I can understand why a forty year old weapons system like Tornado has low availability, but for the others, that's pretty bad. What's worse, the situation is similar for infantry units. Currently, hundreds of millions of Euros are being spent on replacing the perfectly workable and still pretty new G36 service rifle with the HK416 for spurious reasons. I've mentioned before in this thread that German paratroop units haven't practice jumps in years due to a lack of funding and even workable parachutes!

That's not to say that Germany can't put up a fight, or indeed support a sizeable advance force based out of Eastern Europe, but that is putting a significant strain on the logistics and supply chain capabilities of the Bundeswehr.

So yeah, even with the improvements started under former minister of defence Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer, it'll take a long time until the German Armed Forces are in any way, shape or form a serious fighting force again.

Defer to your personal knowledge, but from following the news we get here, I do get impression Scholz (and I presume others of the current top German politicians) know rebuilding their military is vital now. Is my perception incorrect?

If it does happen (a serious remilitarisation), it is not going to happen quickly enough to make much of a difference to the situation now (unless this war drags on for years - really hope not!). I suppose a big ramp-up of German defence industry in future (as part of that rearmament?) & shipment of some new goods from it off to the Ukraine war may have an impact in the near term.

I suppose in ignorance of what's needed to rebuild, my thought would be it took many years (or even a few decades if counting from the fall of the Berlin wall) for the German military to decay to the poor state it is in, the conscription to be removed, and for the general public opinion in Germany that there was no (or not much) need for a military and keeping a big, strong one about the place just provides temptations of warmongering & foreign adventures (ala USA + UK in Iraq etc.) to fully blossom.

Well they have been repeatedly threatened by Russia lately. But are NATO backed.

It may not be Snake island that was hit.Reports are that an occupied/stolen oil rig was hit by Ukraine forces.There is something burning in the Black sea which was picked up by NASA fire map,this is not snake island location.Maybe both were hit.

An evil witch speaks

It's... complicated. For starters, the Armed Forces, and military forces in general don't really have the best image in Germany. This is not only due to the horrors of World War 2 but also due to the fact that many Germans knew exactly where any third world war would have been fought. If the Cold War had turned hot, Germany would have been turned into a battlefield. Going hand in hand with this was the fact that the role of the Bundeswehr within NATOs defense structure at the time was to basically fight a delaying action until either the REFORGER convoys started arriving from the US or everything went to hell in a thermonuclear maelstrom, with the latter being seen as the far more likely outcome. Even then, the Bundeswehr was not seen as much more than the US Army's poor cousin.

This mindset has survived into the present day and is a key factor in the current state of the Bundeswehr. Basically, when the Iron Curtain came down, the prevailing perception was "Well, we don't need to delay the Soviets anymore, so why have an Army in the first place?", which drove the massive defense cuts of the 1990s. At the same time, a number of scandals started coming to the surface about "questionable" practices, including hazing rituals that in some cases turned deadly, and increased neo-nazi infiltration of the Bundeswehr, particularly in the Army. All of this turned any investment into the Bundeswehr that went beyond maintaining the minimum capability required by NATO into a political third rail: Touch it and you die!

This is changing, driven, of all people, by the Green Party, whose current leadership generation seems to have realised that sometimes, you just have to take unpleasant decisions. And to be honest, I do believe Scholz himself also believes that Germany needs to step up its defenses. However, many in his party, the SPD, are still wedded to the philosophy that anything can be dealt with through dialogue, and to to make things worse, Christine Lambrecht, the current minister of defense, is an old-school left-winger.

Having said that, investment IS taking place. The €100b special fund to rehabilitate the Bundeswehr has been voted into law and major procurement projects, such as the purchase of 60 Chinook heavy-lift helicopters, 5 additional Braunschweig class corvettes as well as new heavy frigates for the navy are all going ahead. As is the purchase of 35 F-35A Lightning to replace the ageing Tornado in the nuclear strike role. This latter one is remarkable insofar as "stealth" aircraft had previously been considered as "despicable" by many in the German political establishment, with Germany even seemingly going for the F/A-18 Super Hornet as a Tornado replacement just so that they wouldn't have to go for a "stealth" weapon. It was ironically Christine Lambrecht who finally decided in favor of the F-35A.

And yes, Germany as a limited nuclear strike capability under NATO's "Nuclear Sharing" policy. This consists of the 33rd Tactical Fighter Wing at Büchel Air Base, which has access to 20 US-built B61 nuclear freefall weapons. These weapons are US Air Force property, are guarded and maintained by a US Air Force unit based at Büchel alongside the 33rd, and require both US and German "Go" codes before they can be armed. The 33rd is the unit that is slated to receive the F-35A, once that aircraft finishes its nuclear certification, which is currently in progress. Given its nature, the nuclear strike capability is obviously a political hot potato of the highest order and for years, there's been a concerted effort by left-leaning MPs and parties to get these nuclear weapons removed from German soil. Chief among these were the left wing of the SPD and the Green Party. Now it's a left-wing minister and the Greens who are pushing for a modernisation of that arsenal.

There's also a general sea change happening in society. Jokes about the armed forces are still a common staple in German culture, and the recent discovery of neo-nazi cells within the KSK, Germany's Special Forces Command, certainly caused quite a bit of concern. But there's a growing realization that a world without weapons, whilst a great ideal to strive for, is hardly realistic. The Bundeswehr has made massive strides in recent years to present itself as an attractive "employer", with expanded childcare, social care and education options for service members and its families. So it's not as if the armed forces are left to wither on the vine, so to speak. But given just how long the Bundeswehr has been neglected, I'd say it'll take the better part of a decade to get it to perform at the level that outsiders seem to associate with the German military.

EDIT:

I know this is a long-ass post already, but this re-prioritisation of the Armed Forces does not mean that Germany is gearing up to take a more proactive role in the Ukraine war. Unfortunately, many in the SPD are still wedded to the old ideals of "Ostpolitik", and are unwilling to give up on the principles that served them well for decades. Certain elements of German industry are also still unwilling to give up on either their cheap resources or lucrative markets and are trying to exert political pressure on the government. With that being said though, the idea that Germany might be consciously and actively trying to help Russia is laughable. It's more a policy of sticking your head in the sand and hoping that things go away. The current political system is simply not smart or devious enough to engage in any large-scale conspiracy.

It's on the net for the past few days. Ukraine has not said anything about it yet.

Russia Says over 50 Ukrainian Generals, Officers Killed in Missile Strike - World news - Tasnim News Agency

Deutsche Welle simply quote the Russian Ministry Defence as making the claim.

All I can see on social media are the usual army of Putin bots with the Russian flag in their bio repeating the claim.

A long post indeed but interesting and thanks for going to the bother of typing it

Didn't know there was that attitude to the (West) German army in the Cold war but I suppose it definitely makes sense, given Germany would have been the battlefield (and so likely end up destroyed by that war), and it would all be fairly pointless anyway if a nuclear armageddon got touched off. I recalled it was a pretty strong military, in terms of size and amounts of equipment it had, especially on land - certainly nothing like the German army seems to be today anyway.

I hope the recalcitrants and laggards in the politicial system (as regards aiding Ukraine [militarily], remilitarising, and cutting off remaining economic ties with Russia as much as possible, certainly until there's a major change in its politics regardless of the final outcome of the war) can be faced down or convinced it just has to be done, even though it goes against the grain of German policy up until this war.

Germany during the Cold War was certainly an "interesting" place at the time. Being born in mid-1981, I lived through the tail end of that. One thing that always strikes me when looking back at that time, at least the part I remember, was how omnipresent the military, not just the German one, was in life. Conscription was still in place. My dad had served 18 months as a medic, under a doctor who'd served on the Eastern Front. One of my first memories was not, as you might imagine, something at Christmas, a trip to a zoo, or a birthday, but my parents taking me to watch military manoeuvres, namely a simulated crossing of the Elbe back in '84 or '85. During the summer months, it was a common occurrence to have fighter jets on exercise zip over your house at treetop height. During my first two years of school, we still had regular air raid drills. During the spring and autumn military exercise seasons, it was not unusual to see long convoys of Bundeswehr or NATO military units block up national roads or motorways. My dad's "close encounter of the 3rd kind" with a British SAM battery always comes to mind in that regard.

A bit more sobering was the basement store room full of canned foods and pickled fruit and vegetables in our house, the fully fitted out second kitchen down there, a large "living" space as well as a garage that you could enter without stepping out the door. The only door leading directly into the basement led through a long, narrow room that could be used as an "airlock" and had high-pressure water mains to wash off any contaminants. Many houses built from the late 1950s into the 1980s had these features. No one really thought much of that at the time, and many people had similar store rooms, with several weeks of supplies. It was just how things were.

Of course now, I know that all of this probably wouldn't have helped much and that the first sign that anything was amiss would probably have been a blinding flash in the direction of Hamburg, which would probably also have been the last thing I'd have seen of my mom who worked in the city centre. Given that the little village I grew up in lay right between two cities with major military bases (Buxtehude, HQ of the German 3rd Armoured Division, Stade, home of an artillery regiment, a combat engineering battalion and a supply battalion attached to that division, as well as a decent sized airfield), it's safe to say that we probably would have gotten a similar dose shortly afterwards.

With that experience, I can't really blame people for trying to get rid of anything that reminded them of the time. That's why the Bundeswehr has shrunk from 12 army divisions at the end of the Cold War to just 3 divisions (2 Armoured Divisions, 1 "Rapid Forces" Division that contains paratroopers, airmobile units and special forces) today. That's the scale of downsizing over the last thirty years.