Any possible EV incentive changes coming in the budget

podge1979 · 20-06-2022 8:23pm #1

Government are dropping BIK incrementally for EV starting next year so will SEAI grant band start dropping also now. Also take into that the VRT rebate for EV will that be effected too.

I know they were proposing to drop some of the above pre budget last year but didn't pull the trigger.

There's a lot of concern with cars going over the 60k limit but what about the limit coming the other way?

Lot of long term orders put in now (2023 deliveries) surely they can't make changes for long term orders there would be carnage and lost deposits.

the_amazing_raisin · 20-06-2022 8:32pm

They changed the VRT rules in 2020 and it affected a bunch of ID 4 orders, so I don't think the government really cares about causing chaos. In the end VW made the metallic paint free (it was a mandatory extra originally) to bring the cars back under the VRT threshold

I would imagine the SEAI and VRT grants will be dropped lower. BIK and discount tolls won't be renewed and will be allowed to expire. Home charger grant might be reduced as well

podge1979 · 20-06-2022 10:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119228406#Comment_119228406

What did the price increase translate to in 2020 roughly.

Potentially any changes this time around could have 6k+ impact.

Anytime critical mass starts to use grants etc. seems to be dropped/discontinued. Happening too with solar, can't get a grant for batteries now.

Unfortunately not like the Scandinavians and one of the reasons why EV uptake took off there. But then again they have money from oil and higher tax rates.

Alkers · 20-06-2022 10:18pm

Problem currently is supply of vehicles, not customers.

podge1979 · 20-06-2022 10:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119228804#Comment_119228804

Mmm don't get you? The question is about grants?

If you order for delivery in 2023 you get the price including grants and VRT rebate.

If the band on the grant goes say to 50k there'll be a lot of cars that will jump by at least 6k.

Car companies can't make up the difference there majority make small margins on cars.

podge1979 · 20-06-2022 10:28pm

This is the sort of stuff they were testing the water with before last year's budget.

https://www-irishtimes-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/motors/new-car-prices-will-jump-1-300-with-electric-vehicles-up-4-100-under-budget-proposals-1.4679851?mode=amp

creedp · 20-06-2022 10:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119228798#Comment_119228798

Ironically the Norwegians can afford to be at the vanguard in the move to EVs by heavily subsidising their purchase funded by selling fossil fuels to the rest of us. As usual much easier to expidite expensive innovation when you are wealthy. However, having said Norway should be congratulated for prioritising investment in renewables over a long number of years making the switch to EVs even more beneficial from an environmental perspective. Plenty other wealthy states have a lot of ground to make up.

podge1979 · 20-06-2022 11:00pm

Yeah their doing it well but kept their oil money for a rainy day. Often think we could have done the same if Ireland had more offshore development at the time.

But we're not doing too bad top 5 per capita on wind generation up there with the scandanivans and the falklands.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/wind-electricity-per-capita?tab=table

the_amazing_raisin · 21-06-2022 7:21am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119228798#Comment_119228798

In the end the price increase was around €200, they brought it in just under the VRT threshold

IMO the government sees the current demand for EVs and sees they don't need to be subsidised to prop up sales. There's many would argue that the grant is just going into automakers pockets, and frankly there's probably some truth to that

Also the UK has rolled back their grants almost entirely and even Norway is doing the same. No doubt our government is seeing that and thinking of following suit

My guess is that if the grants get dropped, one of two things will happen

Prices will jump, some buyers will pay out the extra some won't and will cancel their orders. Others will jump on those orders and in the end the EVs still get sold

The automakers will wave the magic wand and drop the prices, either by making certain things free or lowering the spec. This way the price stays roughly the same

Personally I'm betting on some combination of the above. But given the current pricing structure for EVs is "charge whatever you want" then I'm not betting on much generosity from manufacturers

cython · 21-06-2022 2:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119228829#Comment_119228829

I think the point that the poster there is making is that grants and similar incentives are a means of inducing demand, i.e. making up for a shortfall/lack of supply of customers. At present the EV market is experiencing quite the opposite, whereby the demand (AKA supply of customers) is outstripping supply (of vehicles). In such a market, incentives can cease to be a good use of the taxpayer's euro, and so they are ripe to be reduced/axed.

Given that some of the customers in question would likely not be making the move without the existing incentives (and might stop if they were removed entirely), a complete removal is probably unlikely, but conditions are ripe for them to be reduced. As for your own critical mass comment in a previous post, that's the expected way that these schemes work, encourage/reward early adopters as a pilot and when the benefits (even without incentives) can be proven, then there is less need for them.

Squeaksoutloud · 21-06-2022 2:11pm

I thought the last budget guaranteed the SEAI grant would be in place until at least end 2023? Holding off based on that nugget I read at the time.

KCross · 21-06-2022 2:13pm

Over the last few years we have moved step by step with the grant changes in the UK, but with approx a 1yr lag.

UK reduced and removed hybrid grants, we did it shortly after.

UK reduced and have now removed BEV grant entirely. We effectively reduced the BEV grant already by limiting it to cars below a price threshold, so I'd bet the grant will be fully wound down this year or next, more likely next.

As others have said, even with the grant gone there will be plenty buyers for the limited supply that's available and the government have so many competing needs for that money now it will certainly be under the microscope.

...Ghost... · 21-06-2022 2:38pm

It would be pretty sh1tty for them to just cut the grant when so many have ordered an EV because of the grant and will be waiting well into next year to receive the order. A few angry people losing out on a deposit will be least of it. SEAI grant should be honoured for anyone who placed their order up to a certain date.

slave1 · 21-06-2022 2:38pm

UK don't have the same EU carbon fines, no longer directly comparable

denismc · 21-06-2022 2:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119230959#Comment_119230959

I think when they made budget changes in the past, they were implemented in the Spring rather than the 1st of January so people that had a car arriving in January wouldn't be affected.

UID0 · 21-06-2022 5:07pm

In 2019 it was signaled at the start of September that there would be changes to the grant scheme. From September 2019 until after the budget it was not possible to apply for a grant for a car delivered in 2020. The budget then removed the business EV grant and changed the PHEV requirements for the grant.

When the PHEV grant was reduced, it was announced in April, and could still be applied for up to 30 June and cars had to be delivered within 4 months of applying for the grant. When discontinued, the PHEV grant still applied if the car was delayed due to the semiconductor shortage.

I would hope that they give plenty of notice when reducing/removing the grant, and if they are removing it, that they allow people to order it up to the time they announce the removal, and honour it if the car is delivered next year. It would then not effect people who have ordered and paid a deposit, and anybody who ordered after the budget is not surprised at the price they are to pay.

Alkers · 22-06-2022 12:43am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119230736#Comment_119230736

Exactly, I left this tab open to come back and reply but you've said what I needed to!

Any possible EV incentive changes coming in the budget

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