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National Broadband Ireland : implementation and progress

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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,566 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves




  • Registered Users Posts: 15,550 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    IIRC NBI have a wireless backhaul agreement with enet/Airspeed Telecom (Magnet+) for the BCPs.

    enet is the fibre backhaul provider for NBI

    enet and Magnet+ (Magnet Networks / Airspeed Telecom) are all part of the Speed Fibre Group

    2020 enet tender - Infrastructure and solutions which can be used for connectivity of the National Broadband Plan (NBP) Broadband Community Points (BCPs)

    Post edited by The Cush on


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,788 ✭✭✭clohamon


    I'd be doubtful of getting anything expert, or even balanced, out of ESRI in relation to rural broadband.

    It is sometimes argued that remote working, facilitated by the roll-out of quality broadband infrastructure, will reduce the importance of agglomerations and will offer an avenue for rural economic development. However, there is also evidence that some firms that might be expected to be leaders in remote working given their involvement in the IT sector are no longer enthusiastic about remote working. For example IBM has stopped remote working for its staff earlier this year. Firms have reservations about teleworking due to worries about IT security, a lack of control of staff, limited scope for team work and lack of informal interaction among staff. Data from a special tabulation of the Census travel to work data show that in 2011 just under 16,000 of workers in Financial Services, Real Estate, Computer Services and Business Services worked from home accounting for just 5.3 per cent of jobs in those sectors. Almost 10,000 of these live and work in urban areas i.e. less than 6,000 are in rural areas and of these many are close to the larger urban centres. This evidence suggests that teleworking is unlikely to change the nature of spatial economic patterns at least in the medium term.


    ... While broadband availability is a significant factor in start-ups of most types of firms, proximity to airports, motorways and railway stations is only a significant factor for some types of enterprises. Importantly their analysis shows that the benefit of broadband availability depends on the level of human capital present in the area. This suggests that for areas with relatively low human capital, the roll-out of broadband may not significantly alter firm start-ups and FDI attraction rates, unless the level of human capital is raised. The results also show that transport infrastructure is not necessarily going to help attract firms.

    https://www.esri.ie/system/files/publications/RS70.pdf (2018)



  • Registered Users Posts: 12 Case_Agri


    Thats absolutely brilliant thanks everyone for the info just want everything right before they come so its a in and out job no messing or that the light is at the end of the tunnel anyways 😀



  • Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,803 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Even if there's open eir fibre available at every BCP (which I doubt), the cost is likely to be prohibitive. Plus, there are literally no leadtime guarantees.

    The BCPs were a silly idea, but radio backhaul was probably a sensible way to approach them.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,566 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    There would be around 99% of them anyway. Nearly every village and town in Ireland has a Telephone exchange. Eir has provided Fiber to the home from virtually all of these to customers outside these urban area's. Within the villages it's mostly a fiber to the kerb. I was told that eir earlier in the broadband rollout eir used a mixture of radio and fiber but with the last 3-4 years since the roll out of eir's fiber to the home that all these exchanges are fiber enabled.

    Fiber has become very cheap over the last ten years. BCP's would work grand if fed by fiber or by fiber to the kerb if there was only 1-200 meters of copper.

    Any radio based BB is taking the signal back to a high point where unless you have fiber you band is very limited. Radio based BB has limited bandwidth anyway and the longer the distance it's transmitted the poorer the bandwidth.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,803 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    BCPs are, by definition, in areas where decent broadband speeds are not available. If they could already get fibre, why would it be necessary to build a new government-subsidised fibre betwork?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,554 ✭✭✭wexfordman2


    I'm sorry that's rubbish, microwave backhaul for point to point for a service like this is more than adequate and can provide gb speeds!


    For something, such as the BCP's which were always a shirt term stopgap, microwave backhaul was the correct technical solution.


    The bcps are or were however never anything more than a pr exercise, and a waste of time



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,566 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    BCP are put into urban area where there is very poor broadband in the rural area outside it. Cappamore has decent broadband in the village, and I imagine there is fiber to the home on the outskirts. However there is rural swathes of area around where the fiber to the home did not go.

    In general when eir was providing fiber to the home it picked up the easiest most densely area around villages where it could get the most bang for there book.

    They then stopped 5-6 km out as density declined.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,566 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Rubbish in any system using radio spectrum bandwidth has very limited bandwidth. Where the real catch is when you get to the high site how you get back into a network from there.

    If BCP's were using microwave technology on the back haul they are a waste of time. Gigabit technology is all about contention ratio's. The limited nature of radio bandwidth limits your speeds

    This is why the mobile companies use fiber more and more to there sites as it give more bandwidth options on the backhaul.

    If BCP's are using only microwave technology then they are only a PR exercise. However many people may be dependent on them to and beyond 2026.

    Slava Ukrainii



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,550 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Back in 2020 enet were tasked with finding a backhaul solution for the BPCs, to the best of my knowledge they used their own wireless backhaul and their sister company's, Airspeed Telecom's wireless network. Given enet's links to NBI/Peter Hendrick/David McCourt etc. it was unlikely the solution was going open-eir's way, if available, when they had the resources available in-house.

    The BCPs are short term and time limited solution.

    The separate BCP location CPE tender back in 2020 states

    The Contracting Authority intends to co-fund a portion of the retail high speed broadband service for a large number of the BCPs for a minimum of 36 months from the connection date, except in exceptional circumstances. For BCPs that are located in areas that NBI will only connect after 36 months, the Contracting Authority will ensure that there is a demand for a continuing retail high speed broadband service until the end of the calendar year in which the area is reached by NBI.

    ...

    The Client reserves the right to extend the Term for a period or periods of up to 12 months with a maximum of 24 months such extensions permitted subject to its obligations at law 



  • Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,803 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    If BCP's are using only microwave technology then they are only a PR exercise.

    They were only ever a PR exercise. Best guess is that the department of rural affairs shoehorned them in over the objections of the department of comms.



  • Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭snapper365



    Yes, that's the model of ONT they use (though with no Nokia branding on the front and with a fairly cheap-looking NBI sticker plastered onto it).

    As you said, it's mounted in a plastic cradle which almost doubles the size of the footprint of the installation on your wall.

    Like I said, it's not a huge issue but they could have put a bit more effort into sourcing a cradle that doesn't take up so much space - it seems unnecessary.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,554 ✭✭✭wexfordman2


    Double post



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,554 ✭✭✭wexfordman2


    No, you are incorrect, dedicated point to point microwave systems can be high capacity, and throughout can be maintained over 10s of kilometres, there is nothing technically wrong with providing a dedicated high capacity microwave link for solutions such as the bcp's!


    In fact, bearing in mind that the bcps were always a temporary stopgap for the overall nbi project, microwave point to point backhaul was the best and most optimum solution.


    That is not taking away from the fact that the bcps were and are little more than pr!



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,550 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Updated NBI Interim Mast Backhaul Deployment File published yesterday. Interim file ahead of commercial launch in August 2022.

    27 onboarding/technical testing sites, including the one I saw above in S. Tipperary back in May.

    Site ID: NBIS0870221

    Lat/Long: 52.511933 -8.290573


    PoH OLT087 (Tipperary)

    Launch: Aug-22

    Technical Testing / Onboarding Site: Yes

    This from the document, the commercial document will disappear behind the secure portal following commercial launch.

    The Interim Mast Backhaul Deployment File is being made available on the public Service Provider Portal pre-Commercial Launch only to support Service Providers who may wish to participate in testing/validating the service prior to launch.


    All subsequent Mast Backhaul Deployment files, published post Commercial Launch, will be made available only on the NBI Secure Portal and available only to Service Providers who have signed the NBI Mast Backhaul Reference Offer



    Post edited by The Cush on


  • Registered Users Posts: 290 ✭✭dollylama


    The mast backhaul is an interesting addition and looking forward to more details emerging.

    Say a mast operator orders the 10/10 Gbps circuit. I assume it's carried just like all the other xgs-pon connections on the network, wired back to the nearest dp, no different to a residential connection. Would this mean all dp's on that run would now be lit at 10Gbps as a result of this? Will it require dp changes or changes to ONT's for customers on that same dp?



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,550 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    The mast deployment file answers a question I had early last year re Midleton/Cork-Mahon PoH and the NBP contract

    OLT063 Midleton is a PoP and OLT036 Cork-Mahon is Midleton's parent PoH.

    Midleton was included in the NBP contract but Cork-Mahon wasn't.




  • Registered Users Posts: 15,550 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    I think as time goes on we'll see less detail, it'll be hidden behind their secure portal and only available to their service providers.

    The connected mast I saw back in May had a larger orange/red fibre cable between DP and mast.



  • Registered Users Posts: 201 ✭✭Gunner3629


    I would say its the same or very similar to residential customer deployment, but instead of a max 2gig downstream profile like a residential customer, they'll be offered up to 10gig down/up. Not sure how it would work from a contention perspective since 10G is the full pipe and other users will also be sharing that.

    Presumably the mast operators (eir, three, vf) will then not have to use their point to point links and can rely solely on the fibre connection to service their users.

    The mast backhaul was in the roadmap to start Q3 2022, so they must be on schedule.






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  • Registered Users Posts: 290 ✭✭dollylama


    Yes, hadn't considered contention but then I'd imagine a mast of such scale to be pushing 10Gbps would likely have had its own fibre connections for some time. I wonder are the survey teams noting locations of existing masts and masts in planning and arranging the dp rollout with these in mind.. possibly leaving a sole dp or a quite fibre stand in place for each mast.

    It sounds like a product that will definitely sell for NBI. I watched eir erect a few new masts around my way recently and all were hooked up with p2p wireless where there's openeir core fibre and eir residential fibre running just meters away in many cases!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,788 ✭✭✭clohamon


    Joint Committee on Transport and Communications CR2, LH 2000 13.30 Wed 29th June.

    Update on the implementation of the National Broadband Plan

    Representatives from National Broadband Ireland (NBI), Peter Hendrick, CEO

    https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/oireachtas-tv/cr2-live/



  • Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭plasterman


    Re KN installs and while YMMV with engineers they will install into the attic, at least in specific circumstances. We had power points ready and no drilling was required from the house to the attic as the attic has cat5e run up there to connect the new router to the house network. The NBI white box is big but it's not huge and it's not ugly, such features are common in houses these days.

    Wired speeds low 900mbps. Some minor outages lasting a few seconds here and there but I'll let that slide for now.

    Overall very pleased with the process. Ordered end of April. First install offer 3rd week in May. Gort DA.

    One problem I had is not being able to see my NBI account details on my Vodafone account login using the links they sent me in their email, kept directing me to My Vodafone which appears to relate to mobile only even though I've had fixed line services with Vodafone before using that email address. When I went to re-register using a link I found in an email with the same email address they sent it wouldn't allow me. So even if you order using a particular email address and you have had Vodafone fixed line before you might not see your account details when you login. I re-registered the NBI service with a new email address and can now see all my fibre account details. Might help someone!

    Post edited by plasterman on


  • Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭plasterman


    I'm in the Gort DA and I went live before the 31st. I had an offer to install a week earlier too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,788 ✭✭✭clohamon


    Sunday Times has a fairly soft interview with David McCourt claiming 10-15k extra premises *under construction* per month. Says he will not be selling in the ownership "re-jig". Current connections 13,302. (Registration required)

    McCourt says the company is meeting all of its 2022 delivery targets. It will hit 220,000 premises under construction by the end of the year, roughly 40 per cent of its target intervention area, and is adding 10,000-15,000 premises a month. The key metric for politicians is premises passed, where fibre is ready to be connected. At 60,000 it is behind schedule and clocking up potential fines. Yet it is building momentum, with 1,500 staff now working on the project between full-time staff and contractors.




  • Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭NBAiii


    Good spot but that is openeir fibre running to that mast. The OLA marking is the code for the Oola exchange, if it were NBI it would be TPR which is the DA covering that area. On Streetview you can see where the NBI fibre ends and the openeir cable continuing to the mast..

    That is the last NBI DP before the mast. NBI have had to put their cable on the "field" side while the eir cable is on the road side.

    That area went live for openeir in Q1 2019. I'd be curious to know when they extended the run to the mast as they skipped about five premises getting to it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭NBAiii


    The mast traffic is separate to the XGS-PON traffic. The mast connection will be a dedicated CWDM link back to the nearest PoP or PoH.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,550 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    And yet it's one of NBI's onboarding technical testing sites, which means it's being supplied by NBI already.

    Separate cable for the mast it looks like, NBI using the Oola exchange.

    If you look at the open-eir map they have no fibre there.

    As NBAiii posted the connection is CWDM, the info is in the NBI Mast Backhaul Technical Manual.



  • Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭NBAiii


    I'm not sure why you don't believe me. I've explained why it is openeir cable, I've showed you how to trace it back to the openeir dp a few hundred metres back the road. It is not going to appear on a public map as it is not a public connection, it is a dedicated mast connection. Why would NBI be using the Oola exchange when they have a cable back to their PoH in Tipperary a few spans back.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,550 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Apologies I read the post incorrectly, good point, but why then is it 1 of 27 NBI onboarding technical testing sites?

    Are they using open-eir fibre for this?

    Have open-eir pre-empted NBI's rollout to the mast to serve their own mast radio equipment? The mast I believe is owned by Vodafone.

    Post edited by The Cush on


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