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The Pushback against Leftism

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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,840 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Things were better in the good old days when the nuns would bate the leftism out of anyone who didn't use their right hand.



  • Registered Users Posts: 408 ✭✭Starfire20


    ughh centrism, where the party panders to the right as much as it can get away with.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'm always amazed at how quickly Irish people have embraced the American version of politics. Left/Right. Two parties representing opposite viewpoints, and then, transplanting all that narrowminded thinking to our own politics. It's a political view that encourages sides to be picked, and hostility to grow, pitting voters against each other, rather than in a position to challenge what the politicians do. It's smoke and mirrors. A ploy to weaken the electorate, because as we've seen over the last few decades, there's very little practical difference between the governments we've put in power.

    Our political parties have been mostly centralist. There haven't been the wild swings to the left/right that you see in other countries with a longer history of dealing with the extremes of communism, Marxism, socialism, fascism. There's little to no basis for those extremes in Ireland, and as such, our politics is mostly centralist, swinging on particular agendas. Europe and Ireland, for the last few decades, has been dealing with mainly socialist agendas. Not left/right. Socialist. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, as it tends to raise the standards of living, but it needs a robust economy that grows in tandem with the costs of the socialist policies... which Ireland hasn't. We look great on paper, but it's not as stable as people want to believe it is.

    You're all so gung-ho to assume the extremes. As if modern socialists can't appreciate capitalism. We've moved past the period on history where everyone was ideologically driven to only consider their particular views. Education is more commonly available, and foreign ideas are far more accessible. Thinking that western politicians are ideologically driven, and restricted to that ideology is terribly naïve. These are people who have chosen this profession as a career, and have trained/educated themselves for it. It's no longer a farmer from Kerry looking to improve his local area, and is thrust into the spotlight for few years before returning to his cows.

    There is a pushback against the idiotic policies that have been implemented over the last few decades, but it's too little, and has no momentum. The political parties in Ireland are essentially in agreement on most issues. Oh, they'll bitch and moan at each other like children, but it's all part of the game they play. There are no alternatives... and Irish people are nowhere close to being ready to take to the streets, demanding change to occur. I saw that with the Banking crash. Sure, there was anger, but nothing happened. Not one of our glorious politicians were punished for their negligence, or corrupt dealings with property developers. Not one. Expensive tribunals to fill the pockets of the legal system, and cost the taxpayer more, but with no power to punish. A perfect example of how weak the electorates influence over the establishment is.

    We're fucked. It's really that simple.

    Our politicians have decided that Ireland needs a population of 8-10 million.. most of whom will come from outside. There is no interest in natural growth of the current population (both native/foreign), instead, this needs to happen as quickly as possible. Two decades. 20 years. Bloody hell. I've seen no major investment in our nations infrastructure to compensate for such a surge in population. Every "major" undertaking seems to get delayed, then postponed, and nothing happens for years, while costs mount up. Do we really believe that our political groups are capable of expanding our road/rail networks to support such a population? Really? Housing? Social housing is a terrible idea on the grand scale because it is unprofitable. It's a drain. Just like welfare has shown itself to be. Where is the economy to support these idiotic and short-sighted views? cause we don't have it.

    We really do need a pushback but I don't see it happening, as long as people continue believing they can do it within the system that the politicians have created. It is simply amazing how much governments can change/implement without the approval of the electorate.. and no, I have very little faith in regulatory bodies. There have been too many cases of government spending being biased, and the regulatory bodies missing it completely.. Nah.

    My hope is Europe TBH. Not necessarily the EU, as that organisation has become too bloated, just as full of gamesmanship, and far too interested in virtue projects that put the interests of non-Europeans ahead of those it was created to serve. But Europe is changing. Becoming less tolerant of the pro-immigration policies of the past. The failures of integration (whatever that means). The virtue signalling of the political groups at the expense of their electorates. Hopefully, as Europe changes, Ireland will be forced to follow suit.. because left to their own devices, our own politicians will wreck this nation. I have no faith in Irish people to rein them in.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭Tonesjones


    Nothing says right wing like weekly free money for artists and the trialing of a four day working week.

    There is no right wing opposition nor are there any right wing government parties in Ireland

    This country is the wokeism capital of Europe.



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  • Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]



    Its a similarity to the biden/trump crowd in america....theres no large discernable difference in their central policies and approach to main issues to the conservative.....only marketing & rethoric


    The UK is headed fast to a dark place,and labour arent providing a viable alternative anymore



  • Registered Users Posts: 408 ✭✭Starfire20


    as an aside, whats wrong with a 4 day work week?

    why must it be 5 days?

    plus, anyone using woke/wokism, especially in capitals, is usually using it as a catchphrase for anything they dont like.

    it's kinda sad at this point imo



  • Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    They are only then in effect,tory-light


    Why not people just vote tory,if they want tory policies,and let labour persue progressive policies instead?


    The way its headed in uk,it will soon be as difficult to discern between lab and conservative as it is between ff and fg here



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,995 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,620 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Corbyn, McDonnell, Karie Murphy and Seumas Milne trashed the Labour party. Starmer has worked it into something vaguely electable. I see no reason to be bound by Keir Hardie or anyone else from the past.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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  • Registered Users Posts: 408 ✭✭Starfire20


    Keir Starmer fights the left wing in his party vigorously while meekly acquiescing to the Tories.

    Not a great quality to have in the leader of the opposition and the leader of the Labour Party.

    wont be long before theres nothing of note to distinguish between them



  • Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Their leadership banned members from attending pickets this week.


    Its all well and good moving with the times,but what hope do they offer to ordinary people after years of conservative rule,if they want nothing to do with strikes to improve their lot??,whos vote exactly are they seeking



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭bad2thebone


    You wasted valuable moments of your life with those responses and you'll never get them back again. I got a great laugh out it though...



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,620 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The left wing of the party are odious anti-Semites. The sooner they are excised, the better.

    People don't want left wing government. Haven't for decades. Blair saw this and combined his social liberalism with economic liberalism. A new paradigm is needed. Corbyn had to be dragged kicking and screaming towards opposing Brexit and then had the cheek to pretend to care about the working classes.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users Posts: 408 ✭✭Starfire20


    who in the UK Labour Party are anti-semites?

    will need evidence to back that assertion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,237 ✭✭✭sprucemoose


    because it pointed out how flawed your original post was? glad to have helped



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭bad2thebone




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    In some ways, yes.

    And in my view, the Conservatives are not conservative enough.

    But Blair sowed the seeds of Brexit the second he opened the door to southern and Eastern Europe. He even said at the time that he "wanted to rub the noses of conservatives in diversity".

    That didn't end well for him, either.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,232 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    @[Deleted User] I'm always amazed at how quickly Irish people have embraced the American version of politics.

    It's the internet. People have no idea generally what they're actually for any more. They only know what they "hate". It's what American politics has devolved into over the last x amount of years. Ask most people what they believe in and they'd find it difficult to form a coherent and clear set of values. Ask them what they "hate" about the "other side" and they'll happily bleat on about some nebulous issues for days.

    The political scene has become so, so, mired in toxic faux "argument" and it's all based on a ridiculous subset of nonsense from a culture war that doesn't affect 99% of people.

    What the real worry is, is that this subset of nonsensical non-issues are what people vote parties into power on and then they continue to blame a fantasy bogeyman when things still don't go their way.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,237 ✭✭✭sprucemoose


    nothing to do with 'woke'-ness (woke is basically the new buzzword for people who cant come up with a better explanation of their ignorance/refusal to change etc) or not, your original post was largely bollox, if you want to refute my comments on it then please do and ill be happy to listen to what you have to say if it actually makes sense, which obviously hasnt been the case so far but ill be optimistic



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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,232 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    So you're happy that Labour are now a party that would rather represent corporations and businesses over the people it was set up to represent?

    Very poor.



  • Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Tony blair is a war criminal to begin with,claims of social liberialism around him are gross


    What the labour party leadership are selling people is tory-lite and relying on the england being an effectively 2 party state to scare people off voting anyone else with threats the conservatives will arrive at the endpoint quicker than em.......they offer no future to young progressives,nor to ordinary people wanting to improve their lot......


    They are fishing from same pool as the conservatives and relying on likes of gaurdian to corral those with mild concern on culture war/brexit nonsense to vote for em (these people like to paper over their rightwing tendancies by refering to emselves as centrarists)......this simply isnt a big enough,nor viable demographic to sustain em in medium term,given the relative prosperity conservatives can offer this group



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The Labour Party is currently torn asunder with a civil war over what the definition of a woman is.

    I'd say Keir Hardie and Clement Atlee would be turning in their Graves at what a joke that party has turned into.

    No representation of the working class, at all.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,232 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Agreed. It's become a large mush of neo-Liberal positions. However, in the case of America, there never was a left in operation over there...ever. It used to be "Liberals" which opposed the more right leaning Republican Party. Liberal is not the same thing as Left, especially in a western European context.

    But the UK have been going down that mushy road for a long time now. Since the 90's. If that's what people think they want, then sod them. They're doomed to a ridiculous merry-go-round forever.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,232 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    I'm not interested in anything you have to say. Go play your games with somebody else.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus




  • Registered Users Posts: 408 ✭✭Starfire20


    I agree with this.

    Liberalism is just more free-market capitalism that the right likes but with a softer face and some "not as draconian as the right" social policies imo



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,344 ✭✭✭landofthetree


    FG are now left wing. They are between the centre and social democracy. Its called social liberialism.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_liberalism

    I know somebody will say but FG are right wing! Look at their housing policy! But that's an outliner. Are we going to call SD,Greens,Sinn Fein right wing because they support the 12.5% corpo tax rate? Thats lower than what the Tories have set and much less than what Donald Trump/Republicans want.


    Basically all the major parties in the Dail are left of centre to far left.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    Except when ours moved right and got destroyed. People expect smaller parties to stick to their claimed values when they elect them.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭bad2thebone


    What angle are you coming at, are you more left leaning, neutral or more conservative.

    I'll know what I'm dealing with then.

    Because I think you read my post and got a bit offended, thinking to yourself ah here we go another conservative ripping the bejayzus out of lefty's or liberals etc

    Ask me one question at a time about my post and I'll respond.



This discussion has been closed.
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