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The Pushback against Leftism

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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,317 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    It's difficult to see FG moving back to be more right wing while in government.

    Once they move into opposition, they will revert back to type to get back into government.



  • Registered Users Posts: 408 ✭✭Starfire20


    right wing parties everywhere basically boil down to varying combinations of 3 policies:

    tax cuts for the rich

    deregulation

    hate foreigners (except when exploited to provide cheap labour)


    come on lads, come up with some new ideas.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,232 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Well modern Liberalism is now largely an American style Neo-Liberalism, which is very much a right leaning ideal. However, as you say, they present with a softer face that eschews the more hard lad type of right wing views. So, they don't care about gay people any more in the way that conservatives did in the recent past for instance. But they are absolutely beholden to corporate entities and a deregulated "free market" over the average citizen.

    These are the political entities that get called "tHe lEft" by fools that cannot or will not learn to distinguish the differences in modern political thinking. They'd rather just cry "lEft" because it's simpler for them to do so. It doesn't matter a jot that the actual Left are usually nowhere to be seen these days and they certainly aren't in any positions of power, that's for sure.

    TBH, though, I think the assertion in the OP is catastrophically wrong and sounds more like wishful thinking based of petty fears rather than a true political observation. If anything there's been more people willing to lend an ear to the Left, especially around the serious social issues like housing. I know several dye-in-wool Thatcherites that are thinking of chucking a vote to a party can offer a solution to that current woe. You see these Tory types are now wondering if their own little tiddlers are ever going to be able to buy house ever and that scares them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 624 ✭✭✭Mullaghteelin


    Both "left" and "right" have largely united with multinational corporations, NGOs/lobby groups, so called "stake holders", the UN/EU, unelected bodies like the WEF, and the traditional mainstream media. A united front pushing for the same global policies.

    Anyone who attempts to oppose this or point this out, from EITHER side of the political spectrum, are immediately, labeled far-right or populist, attacked and smeared by the media for fabricated nonsense, delisted from internet searches, censored, declared a source misinformation and disinformation. And of course, racist.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,617 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    That's not what I said and you knew that.

    How many policies did Corbyn get through for the working classes?

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,344 ✭✭✭landofthetree



    Low taxes and relatively free access to trade has always been a winning combination.

    Its why so many people want to live in thr EU,EEA,UK,Canada,Auz,NZ, Japan etc.

    As for hating foreigners its also a left wing thing, eg Ardern in NZ or the Democrats in the USA.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,237 ✭✭✭sprucemoose


    doesnt matter what 'angle' anyone is coming from, most people arent coming with an 'angle'/agenda, they simply want to treat as many people as possible with respect, dignity and fairness

    i didnt get offended, i thought is was mostly bollox (as already pointed out)

    not asking anymore questions (was never asking you questions anyway), already posted a detailed response to what i thought of your original posting, if you want to refute my points then feel free to and i'll listen to what you have to say. im most definitely not engaging 'one question at a time'



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,232 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    It has nothing to do with Corbyn. Labour was destroyed before Corbyn ever became leader. Blair and his entourage moved Labour away from more traditional leftwing values, to the point where they even got into bed with the likes of George Bushe's Neocon republicans to pursue an illegal oil war based on a demonstrable lie. Corbyn was merely a blip, but the party had been done in long before that.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,617 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Nope. Corbyn destroyed Labour. He handed its leadership over to his socialist cronies who then proceeded to plot and scheme against each other. They couldn't beat the worst Tory leaders in living memory.

    People don't want traditional left wing values. They haven't for decades. They may soon but not now.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,232 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    We'll agree to disagree on Corbyn.

    As for what people want. They don't know what they want.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,344 ✭✭✭landofthetree


    Its why we get the same template in charge almost everywhere. Eg Macron,Biden,Ardern,Varadkar,Trudeau,the Finnish PM, the Dutch PM.

    The likes of Switzerland are total outliners these days with this guy in charge:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ueli_Maurer



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭bad2thebone


    Thought so, you're just basically asking me for a counter argument then. That would be quiet boring picking away at each other's points endlessly. Other's joining in etc, then it gets messy and ruins the thread. I'll just have to accept your difference of opinion.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    keep reading this as "the pushback against leitrim" and yknow.....fair enough tbh



  • Registered Users Posts: 408 ✭✭Starfire20


    still waiting for you to name the anti-semites in the Labour Party and provide evidence for that assertion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,237 ✭✭✭sprucemoose


    i mean yes thats exactly what im looking for, thats usually how discussions work?

    That would be quiet boring picking away at each other's points endlessly. Other's joining in etc, then it gets messy and ruins the thread. I'll just have to accept your difference of opinion. - or you realise you cant really back up what you originally said and now see that walking away is the easiest thing to do.......



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,319 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    I’m not missing anything. Think you must be in the wrong thread.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,443 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    Has anyone blamed George Soros and the Jews globalists yet?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭bad2thebone


    I'm not walking away from anything, I asked you to ask me a question and I'll give you an answer, then you wanted the argument on your terms.

    I read your original response and it read as if my opinion was directed at you personally and then you tried to twist reality. By saying, well what you said was..... but what I think you meant was ...

    That's not a debate, that's just being awkward. And having an argument with someone who's awkward is a waste of time, energy and it could go on and on...

    You'll just keep twisting everything and try to trip me up, but I can see the traps already in front of me so I'll not bother to go on the rollercoaster.

    I already told you that you wasted time you'll never get back by the way you responded.

    If it makes you feel better, think yourself as winning the argument. Im all for good sport:)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,549 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    I remember when Trump's election was the start of "the pushback against the left".

    He was gunna change the world with the help of Bolsinaro,Orban and Brexit Britain. Le Pen and Peter Casey were supposed to join that party aswell.

    Its a serious pushback alright.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,617 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I remember Peter Casey. People here were acting as if getting 20% of the vote meant he won it and that the silent majority had voted him in.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    They're still at it. It was brought up in the Michael D thread and some still think it was a great result even though he and the other nobodies got their arses wallopped in one count.

    Oh, it was the media's fault too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,237 ✭✭✭sprucemoose


    i already stating why i think what you posted originally is rubbish, its pretty simple, if you cant/dont want to refute my statements then fine, but dont try and act like its because im trying to 'twist' anything, ive already laid out my position in relative detail in response to your post and yet you want me to go through things again one by one? and i didnt want an argument, again as i stated already i was happy to have a discussion

    nothing in my response suggested i found it was directed to me, this is you 'twisting' things as you put it

    it wasnt meant to be a debate per se, more of an open discussion but again you seem to be reluctant to engage as you have little to back up your stance

    i dont think of these things as 'winning' or 'losing', its a bit childish to reduce matters like this as such. if you need to walk away then fine but i suggest you re-think your positioning on what you had originally posted about maybe? if you cant actually back it up then why continue to think this way.......



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Le Pen has grown from strength to strength in recent years.

    Macron and his style of politics has become progressively more eroded.

    In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if Le Pen wins the next presidential election.

    As for Trump, they're likely to keep "Trumpism" but without Trump - someone like Ron DeSantis.

    Peter Casey was a bit of a fake, drumming up support by causing deliberate offense and controversy. I wouldn't even include him in this discussion, if I were you.

    But there has definitely been a trend of sorts, and it hasn't gone away either.

    Even if the actors you cite went away, the centre of political gravity in these countries has been permanently changed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,544 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    He jumped from about 3% to 20% in a few days because he spoke the truth about the sacred ethnic minority, something the others running in that election knew was true but they were too spinless to say it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,549 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Jaysus I remember when Le Pen was a guarantee to win the 2022 election. It feels like it was a few weeks ago.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    If you look at the long-term trend, since 2000, you can see how much politics has changed in France.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You remember things quite differently than I do.

    I remember that Trump was getting into power as a response to the past growth of PC nonsense in the US, and that was the pushback being considered. You're taking supposed pushbacks against different problems and throwing them all together, as if different problems should be merged together. I suppose that happens when your own desire for nonsense is opposed in some manner. Also the idea that these people were some kind of messiah that would resolve it for all time. They weren't.

    They were simply signs of the growing dissatisfaction with the status quo. I doubt anyone (outside of the US) truly expected anything to change in a substantial manner in such a short period, considering how long many of these issues had been reinforced by those previously in power.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    They were simply signs of the growing dissatisfaction with the status quo. 

    Populism thrives in such circumstances.



This discussion has been closed.
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