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Census 2022

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  • Registered Users Posts: 29,110 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,453 ✭✭✭sam t smith


    The ‘Blackout’ (from Bladerunner 2049) is due to happen next month:

    https://bladerunner.fandom.com/wiki/Blackout

    Thankfully it will only affect LA.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    Imagine thinking in the age of technology that they won't be able access data on a USB stick in 100 years...



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,110 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Honestly, no. The knowledge gap is just too big.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,553 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    If I gave you a zip disk from 20 years ago would you be able to access the data on it, would you even know what it was?



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    I may not be able to do it, but I'm sure it would be possible to get an expert to do it.

    It doesn't really matter anyways if you could access a USB in 100 years. If you handed down the USB through the generations then they'd transfer it as the times went on. Just like around 50 years ago someone had a video recording of the village they lived in and now that video has been transferred to modern video.

    Someone with a recording on a camcorder from 20 years ago can be transferred to dvd.

    If cloud storage is still around someone can use the storage form of the day to transfer to the cloud and transfer it through the generations too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 69,018 ✭✭✭✭L1011




  • Registered Users Posts: 69,018 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    I would. Because I have lots of ridiculously old kit, including a SCSI ZIP100 and an IDE ZIP750

    Good luck even finding a commercial service to do it though.



    The far bigger problem is the files on it. That zip disk could be full of Targa images and WordPerfect documents that also need further conversion to work.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Okay, so far you're expecting somebody to actively transfer it across mediums from generation to generation. And thavt's still subject to something going wrong, eg misplacing passwords or forgetting to pass it through the generations. So really you're jumping through hoops to call the census version stupid. Their jobs are to guarantee the data isn't lost. The info also is guaranteed to remain private for a century unlike your idea.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,653 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder



    I don't know why they didn't just put it all on USB..

    Post edited by magicbastarder on


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,325 ✭✭✭iLikeWaffles


    What does the notice look like?? That seems highly irregular. Only your enumerator or CSO should see or have in their possession your form. I would call the CSO and or the Garda to report that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,325 ✭✭✭iLikeWaffles


    My enumerator asked me if I will be at my address in month of April. I told her I would be - because I was. I'd presume anyone who is going on any sort of holiday they would tell the enumerator when they will be going. If their form isn't collected and they forgot to tell the enumerator they are going or will be away then they should be ringing the CSO to tell them to get word to the enumerator to collect their form. What that boils down to is a total lack of communication from the person with the form. Only adults can fill out a form if they are not responsible enough to arrange for its collection before they go away then yes they deserve any warning, even a final one. IIRC what it said on the front of the form was 'have your form ready for collection ... if it is not collected within 4 weeks send it by post'



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,420 ✭✭✭apache


    I'd have to have another look at it but it seems like an official gov.ie poster.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,110 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    It would be remarkably foolish to assume that a present day laptop would work standalone in 100 years time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 69,018 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    If components haven't failed and AC power still exists there is absolutely no reason it wouldn't.

    Now, I don't expect components not to have failed.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,653 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    do mclaren still have those ancient compaqs on the go to maintain the F1?



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,110 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Do you reckon all the software will continue to work in a century? Windows licensing and other license issues? Anti virus updates?



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,553 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    Anti virus? Jesus I wouldn't be connecting it to the internet at all, it'd be like Columbus and the native Americans...

    Strip out all the bloatware, strip out windows altogether, install Linux and a simple plain text editor



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,412 ✭✭✭jmcc



    Be careful. He thinks he's an expert on databases too. :) There's also the problem of multilayer PCBs and the layers separating. One of the reasons that many of the older PCs and home computers still work (apart from component failure) is that the PCBs are often far simpler designs with fewer layers and operate at lower frequencies. There will always be techies trying to restore old equipment (old valve radios and TVs, old computers, old hardware etc).

    The file format issue is one that is more problematic because it is, to some extent, hardware independent. A lot of data stored as PDFs can be downright iffy. Had to recover data from hundreds of domain name transaction reports that had been printed from Excel to PDF (oldest from 2001 and most recent from 2009), around 115K CSV files, and import them all into a database along with error checking. The format changed from report to report and even from page to page. As with most things, much of the time was spent on coding for errors. With stored data, as long as the file formatting specifications are available, it should not be a major problem but it is a lot of complex work to reconstruct data from archived files even with currently used formats.

    The CSO data is easier to extract from the forms and once it is in digital format, it may be more robust and transferrable. However, the original documents may be maintained and those could be more robust than some currently used storage media. The census forms from the early 20th centrury were converted into images and merged with extracted census data and put online by the CSO. There is a massive difference between the 2022 census and those forms.

    I've data on CDs and DVDs from about 20 years ago that are unreadable due to the layers on the discs either fading or bubbling and splitting. With mechanical harddrives, there may be some issues with the lubrication having solidified but that's a comparatively minor problem. Technology is often more robust than people expect. USB memory sticks and flashdrives may not be so robust.

    Regards...jmcc

    Post edited by jmcc on


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  • Registered Users Posts: 69,018 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Yes.

    Explain why, showing that you know what you're talking about, you think they'd magically stop working.

    If any of the software does have time expiration that it shouldn't have, you just set the clock back.

    Why would you have antivirus on a completely offline device?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,653 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    'your password has expired'

    'what's a password?'



  • Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so




  • Registered Users Posts: 78,437 ✭✭✭✭Victor




  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 12,767 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    So the preliminary results of Census 2022 were released yesterday.

    As an academic who carries out a lot of urban policy analysis and research, these data are invaluable for my work.

    5.1 million in the State as of April 2022. That is 1.2 million more than the figure in 2002. 2.1 million dwellings, of which 1.8 million are occupied. That makes an average household size of 2.75 persons per occupied dwelling, up from 2.7 in 2016 and a reflection of the worsening housing situation with overcrowding and fewer independent young households as more and more young adults remain in their parental homes. A retrograde step. Between 1901 and 2011, average household size fell from 5 persons per dwelling to 2.5, reflecting the massive social and general housing provision and slum clearances during the 20th Century, particularly between 1930 and 1990. In any advancing society, household size falls, not increases.

    Greater Dublin (the four Dublin LAs plus Kildare, Meath and Wicklow) now contains 2.1 million inhabitants, double the corresponding figure in 1981. 1.4 million now live in Dublin city and its contiguous suburbs with the population of Dublin City (the inner city and inner-middle suburbs) now at 588,000, an increase of 100k since 2002 - this growth reflects the urban renewal construction boom that began in the 1990s and has seen the inner city repopulated after a century of decline but also gentrified. Dublin is clearly unable to cope with all the strain on its rather poor infrastructure.

    Cork city now stands at 222,000 (within the expanded boundaries).

    Post edited by JupiterKid on


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,117 ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    One thing to note is that the census doesn't include derelict or inhabitable housing stock, but does include housing unoccupied at the time of the census due to being for sale, on the rental market, or under renovation. That skews the figures and doesn't reflect reality.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭crossman47


    I don't get your point. If its derelicit or uninhabitable, what is the point of counting it?



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,117 ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    Well you can pump money into them and bring them back into use, whereas reporting houses that are temporarily vacant because they're on the market or being renovated gives the impression of more houses being left idle.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,254 ✭✭✭plodder


    Incidentally, I was selected randomly for the annual CSO household income survey recently. Got a couple of different letters in the post and a CSO person arrived at the house and gave me more information about it. The survey was going to take about 45 minutes, so I hummed and hawed and forgot about it for a week or so. Then I contacted the person to suggest a couple of evenings for a phone interview. She was away on leave and it would be too late when she got back. Point is this survey should really be online as well in this day and age. In person and even telephone interviews seem incredibly backward in 2022, as the questions in this survey sound a lot more personal and sensitive than the census. I would definitely have found the time to do it online, maybe split over a few evenings.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 29,110 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Do you think that those who've been running the survey for decades might know more about how best to run it, compared to say, people who have no experience of running national surveys? There's more to a survey than online forms. There are good reasons to do surveys in person, depending on the nature of the survey.



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