What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

One eyed Jack · 25-06-2022 10:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119247355#Comment_119247355

I would suggest that by supporting this idea, nay dream of multiculturalism, you're avoiding the fact and hoping somehow, someway, this time, Ireland will be magically different. It already isn't and we're barely a generation into this mess of a politic.

I don’t “support” multiculturalism though, because as far as I’m concerned it’s not something that either can or cannot be supported, it’s just a manifestation of tribalism, and the idea of culture manifests itself in different ways among different groups in society. That’s why this whole idea of some people trying to argue we should be looking after the natives first, all too often translates as an argument that their concerns are far more specific to themselves and their own ideas for society. They’re quick to want to tell the natives who don’t share their ideas that they too can get in the boat.

It is literally because they're Black and the passage quoted backs that up and it's a mainstay of reportage on the matter in any "multicultural" Western nation you care to pick. They are discriminated against where this occurs precisely because they're Black and not White. And this is also the case in every single other "multicultural" Western nation. It's not the only factor of course, East Asians aren't White Europeans and it's not as if they haven't and don't experience racism or face discrimination, yet they do better on average than even the native White populations and in every single other "multicultural" Western nation too.

It’s not because they’re black though, it’s because they’re African.

jones · 25-06-2022 10:47am

I think there a lot of confusion amongst the general public about immigration. I have no problem with immigration such as people coming over from whenever on a visa and working and paying their way. That's a good thing for everyone BUT I do have a problem with European asylum being so widely abused that it literally does not function.

These are the people sitting in the "horror camps" that are direct provision (I'd love to know what doable alternative people suggest but that's another story). There's a 700% increase in asylum applications this year with projected 15k in 2022 and this does not include the Ukrainian special scheme which is currently at approximately 38k.

Most of the people claiming international protection are economic migrants this is borne out by initial recommendation results - about 70% are refused but then most appeal. I think asylum needs a shake up in Europe. IMO you should not be able to just claim asylum by virtue alone of being from a country outside the EU. If there is no recognised war or issue in your home country then you better have a very good claim for claiming asylum such as proveable political persecution etc. It's ridiculously open at the moment and who could blame people using it as a get into any EU country and be accommodated for free, be able to work after 6 months etc etc. Totally unsustainable situation as no one ever leaves.

Cordell · 25-06-2022 10:48am

https://www.thejournal.ie/shooting-oslo-norway-death-5799825-Jun2022/

never gonna happen here

Fandymo · 25-06-2022 10:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119247355#Comment_119247355

It is literally because they're Black and the passage quoted backs that up and it's a mainstay of reportage on the matter in any "multicultural" Western nation you care to pick.

Absolute horse shyte. Plenty of black people work in Ireland. It’s Nigerians and Central African Republic citizens who have the highest rates of unemployment. Two countries out of a MASSIVE continent.

dorothylives · 25-06-2022 10:58am

In the past 24 hours I've read the following stories:

A 15 year old homeless chap was trafficked to Britain from off the streets of Lagos by a former Nigerian Vice President and his wife, both academics in Britain. They brought the kid in on the passport of a 41 year old man and the kid had no idea that he was to be used as an organ donor for the pairs daughter who has kidney failure. At one of the many medical checks before the procedure a medic picked up on the fact that the kid had no idea what was going on and put a stop to it.

2000 Moroccan men forced their way over the border across Europe's only border with Africa, crushing and trampling people as they went. Quite a scary scene.

A Ukrainian woman on holiday with her boyfriend in America arrived to Ireland to be given free everything, including a stall in a very high profile arcade. Why? Virtue signalling, as well as all the good publicity for the people who own the arcade. Why is it National newspaper worthy that some random Ukrainian woman has a stall in Dublin?

In Oslo on Friday a man of Iranian decent went on a shooting spree in a gay bar, killing and injuring people who'd just gone for a night out. Same guy was a petty criminal known to the police, aren't they all? I'm sure he had mental health issues, don't they all? What is it about Friday's, I'm sure it'll come to me.

Yesterday as I was waiting for a cab a really unsavoury looking Ukrainian guy was stood with his mug of tea beside me waiting for the young Irish woman who was down on her knees scrubbing the door to the building he and many others from Ukraine are living in. That left a bad taste in the mouth. Is there a reason that unemployed people can't clean up after themselves? Ah well, I suppose cleaning up after asylum seekers and refugees might be a booming industry for young Irish people.

So this morning my view on multiculturalism is not positive.

One eyed Jack · 25-06-2022 11:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119247417#Comment_119247417

Forgive me for my memory being a bit sketchy, but for some reason I seem to remember the Congo sticking out as either the country from which there were the most unemployed immigrants in Ireland, or it was described as “the rape capital of the world”…

Could be both, but my geography isn’t up to much either when you mentioned Central Africa and I thought of Columbia and “the Colombia Three” who were allowed back into the country -

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/colombia-3-facing-passport-inquiry-by-gardai-25970319.html

At least Colombia gave us Shakira and cheap cocaine, has to count for something 🤔

Wibbs · 25-06-2022 11:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119247417#Comment_119247417

Of course plenty of Black people work in Ireland Fandymo and a goodly proportion of them are Nigerians, including highly educated Nigerians, actual "doctors and engineers". That doesn't get away from the fact that in every single multicultural Western nation being Black, regardless of origin, means you're far more likely than the native population to be unemployed, employed in entry level jobs, under educated, in gaol, in poverty or near it. There are many complex reasons for it, but it remains a fact.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119247391#Comment_119247391

Being Black is a huge part of it. Regardless of origin. Do you think a discriminatory employer gives a jot whether the Black person in front of them is from Nigeria, Cameroon, or France? Do you think a discriminatory employer wouldn't take a different view if another person from Nigeria, Cameroon, or France was White? In the US for example first generation African immigrants do better on average than her own population of Black Americans, but the following generations tend to lose that advantage.

Wibbs · 25-06-2022 11:13am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119247469#Comment_119247469

IIRC it's Cameroon that tops the unfortunate poll on unemployment.

lmao10 · 25-06-2022 11:19am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119247396#Comment_119247396

Don't worry about Direct Provision. The government is working hard to end it by 2024.

25-06-2022 11:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119247435#Comment_119247435

So this morning my view on multiculturalism is not positive.

So a typical morning then

lmao10 · 25-06-2022 11:32am

My girlfriend and her mates got their nails done here. Highly recommended she said.

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/dublin/dublin-news/meet-the-ukrainian-woman-given-a-free-unit-in-dublins-georges-street-arcade-to-run-her-nail-bar-41783558.html

You love to see it.

Bobblehats · 25-06-2022 11:39am

-quality controll?

Dyr · 25-06-2022 11:59am

"In Oslo on Friday a man of Iranian decent went on a shooting spree in a gay bar, killing and injuring people who'd just gone for a night out. Same guy was a petty criminal known to the police, aren't they all? I'm sure he had mental health issues, don't they all? What is it about Friday's, I'm sure it'll come to me."

I suppose religious fundamentalism could be classified as a mental illness, yet we seem to be very keen on importing a lot of it.

Geert von Instetten · 25-06-2022 12:06pm

If I were an End Direct Provision advocate, I’d be less confident than that, the White Paper was drafted pre-Ukraine and was based on the assumption that there would be 3,500 asylum claims per annum. Last I read, White Paper staff were seconded to the Ukrainian response effort.

One eyed Jack · 25-06-2022 12:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119247483#Comment_119247483

Do you think a discriminatory employer gives a jot whether the Black person in front of them is from Nigeria, Cameroon, or France? Do you think a discriminatory employer wouldn't take a different view if another person from Nigeria, Cameroon, or France was White?

The potential candidates wouldn’t have to be in front of them though. It would just be a matter of reading their CV, or application form* or reading their bio on LinkedIn, seeing they have their pronouns in their profile and thinking “Oh fcuk no!”…

On that last one I figured I’d give them a shot at an interview, and it was like interviewing a completely different person. I was misled by the pronouns thing, but the point I’m making is that employers are just ordinary people who have their own biases and prejudices towards and against people in numerous ways, and will discriminate accordingly.

I know it’s confirmation bias on my part, but research has found that employers are more likely to hire candidates closer to themselves -

Unconscious bias toward people who are of the same race, education level, economic status and have the same personality, fears or values influences who you hire much more than you think. Scientists now have tests that can measure just how biased you are. You subconsciously look for points of similarity in everyone you meet because similarities make you feel safer.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbescoachescouncil/2018/05/01/why-you-mistakenly-hire-people-just-like-you/?sh=307224e83827

The article makes the point that these biases are unconscious, but they’re not, they’re very much a conscious decision.

*I’m aware of a few companies who specifically ask about candidates ethnicity and other cultural indicators specifically for the purposes of hiring with the aim of increasing diversity among their employees.

America is just one really odd country. Stating the obvious, I know, but the whole “Asians have higher employment rates” is a bit misleading. A number of Indian IT firms in particular are often accused of some shady stuff in their employment practices -

https://www.computerworld.com/article/2495577/tata-agrees-to-pay--30m-to-settle-employee-lawsuit-in-us.amp.html

https://qz.com/india/1478757/tcs-wins-class-action-discrimination-suit-by-former-us-employees/amp/

It’s not just Indian employers in the US who are accused of abusing the visa system, American employers like Disney are just as handy at it too -

https://www.hindustantimes.com/business/us-disneyland-sacks-250-workers-hires-indians-on-h-1b/story-0DInvwXVqNOkoFWcUKxtYL_amp.html

jones · 25-06-2022 12:24pm

Anyone talking about ending direct provision has no clue about it or is deliberately painting a worse picture of it to create drama such as certain NGOs. It's a red herring, if we were putting people in tents as other European countries do then there might be some basis for the outrage I read about. Is it perfect? No of course not but unless people are actually advocating for every person who mutters the word asylum at Dublin airport to get "own door accommodation" i.e. a house or apartment and never leave then what exactly is the alternative???? I find it funny when there are debates about this the person saying how terrible DP is has no suggestions on what should replace it because they know virtue signalling will only get you so far and the public mood will turn when asylum seekers already in Europe will flock here for the benefits and a free house to boot.

People happily sitting in direct provision for 15 years due to endless appeals and judicial reviews until they are given permission to remain (PTR) as they are here so long is the problem.

The system needs to be done in 6 months and at that point if you are unsuccessful you are removed from the country. No sob story BS your just gone. Then the people who actually need the help are getting it without flooding the country with economic freeloaders.

/Rant

dorothylives · 25-06-2022 12:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119245731#Comment_119245731

I'm sure that none of the Irish people waiting on Oncology services will mind at all that the government have been using air ambulances to bring Ukrainian cancer patients to Ireland, because I'm absolutely, 100% sure that the Irish won't be left waiting behind the Ukrainians at all, totally 100% sure.

dorothylives · 25-06-2022 12:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119247652#Comment_119247652

Shh, you can't mention religion and fundamentalist terrorism. It doesn't exist, you know that, it's all just people with mental health issues, nothing to be seen here, move along. Sweden used to be such a lovely country, then it all went horribly wrong. I can't think what happened over the past number of years that might have caused that, well I can, but I'd be banned if I posted it.

Geert von Instetten · 25-06-2022 12:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119247759#Comment_119247759

As far as I am aware, the current plan is to provide accommodation to refused asylum claimants for a period of 6 months, paying them the DEA during that time, in order to allow them to “organise departure”, which is a revealing way of describing the White Paper’s interest in deportation enforcement.

One eyed Jack · 25-06-2022 12:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119247759#Comment_119247759

I’m not going to say you have no clue what you’re talking about, because clearly you do by the way you’re exaggerating about the alternative to direct provision and portraying it as a negative, as though anyone opposed to it is in the same position as politicians who care about the public mood. DP was portrayed as being a temporary measure at it’s introduction 20 years ago, and while I’m not aware of anyone being there 15 years, 12 years seems to be the longest, and they weren’t happy about it.

Asylum seekers won’t be flocking here for benefits or a free house, they might be under that impression if they were fans of reading mucky media like Gript, but that’s an exaggeration for dramatic effect. In reality what’s likely to happen is they’ll go in one of the “family hubs” while they’re put on the local authority housing list, bumping up the figures of “homeless” in Ireland.

There isn’t going to be any hope of a six month turnaround time in cases nor is anyone going to be denied the right to appeal, you know that already too, and the people who need help ARE getting it, the same people you’d categorise as economic freeloaders according to your own assessment criteria. It’s not asylum seekers are the economic freeloaders, it’s the Irish people who created the system by which they are it’s main beneficiaries - the oxygen thieves in Dáil Éireann.

25-06-2022 1:08pm

I'd have no issue with ending DP if there was a plan to replace it with something more effective... but there's not. It's simply the case of ending DP, and... saying things will work out because life is beautiful.

Geert von Instetten · 25-06-2022 1:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119247874#Comment_119247874

The intention is that Approved Housing Bodies (ABHs) will source housing separately from Local Authority housing. After a period of 4 months in one of four Reception and Integration Centres, the majority of asylum claimants will then be housed in that, asylum specific, ABH housing. Asylum claimants will be expected to pay differential rent which, on the Phase 2 payment (apparently intended to be identical to the SWA payment) would be around €42.00 a week, with any Child Allowance payments being disregarded. The DePaul ABH have argued that this separate housing stock is important, as it “prioritises” asylum claimants rather than including them with those that are registered as homeless. In the civil society sector - partially responsible for drafting the policy - there is considerable concern that the policy will be received with animosity by the public, for that reason, the civil society sector is invested in presenting a certain perspective of asylum, in order to “target” public attitudes.

The intention is indeed that a first instance decision will be complete after 6 months in the State. The timeline for appeals is 6 months as well, though if I remember rightly, the White Paper made mention of the “litigious nature” of the International Protection system and its tendency to delay the process. 30% of asylum claimants were granted refugee status in 2020.

dorothylives · 25-06-2022 3:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119247683#Comment_119247683

Give it time, some NGO will take a legal challenge for asylum seekers accusing the government of discrimination against brown and black people in favour of Ukrainians. See, Ukraine is not part of the EU, so all the freebies that our government have given them are entirely unnecessary, still it's very easy to spend someone else's money. They'll probably win and then we'll end up in a perfect sh it storm.

SEPT 23 1989 · 25-06-2022 3:47pm

3000 children without homes in this country today

mikethecop · 25-06-2022 6:52pm

18 dead as over 2,000 African migrants storm border into Spanish enclave of Melilla - Independent.ie

certainly looks like an invasion to me . and one we cant and wont defend ourselves against

why is it always large groups of young men. do people really believe that they will improve Europe ?

Danzy · 25-06-2022 7:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119247652#Comment_119247652

Few of the Woke priests will condemn it. Ignoring seems to be the chosen option.

A few years ago it would be a leading news story, now it's just another day.

Different values expressing themselves in a vibrant way

Miadhc · 26-06-2022 6:17pm

https://twitter.com/Klaus_Arminius/status/1540324215441719297?s=20&t=7BWo7T6izT3zUhv783NOMw

Footage of some of the 500 Africans who made it through the border of Morocco and Spanish-owned Melilla on Friday. Around 2,000 had attempted the border breach.

Looks like they must have been fleeing women and old people.

140 Moroccan security personnel and 49 Spanish police were injured while trying to prevent the invasion.

Last year the leader of a Western Saharan liberation movement was treated for covid-19 in a Spanish hospital. This upset Moroccan authorities to the degree that they unleashed 10,000 Africans on the border of Ceuta as punishment. You might remember Belarus was denounced for launching a similar weapon of mass migration, although the worst culprits are European leaders themselves and NGOs.

Anyway, Spain's relations with Morocco were patched up recently so Morocco did want to prevent this latest incursion, hence the large number of casualties. Moroccan TV reported 23 Africans also died of the injuries they sustained.

https://twitter.com/abdelali_ragad/status/1540821901546663937?s=20&t=IirskioHYW3WtoJqdfHxYA

Bobblehats · 26-06-2022 11:38pm

Great defense in fairness. It’s often these little nuances that go unnoticed if they can compliment that cohesion in their general play by shoring up at the back, then more power to them

dorothylives · 27-06-2022 9:04am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119248433#Comment_119248433

There have been Irish families living in hotel rooms for years including through the COVID lock downs. We really didn't hear much about them during all of that though. We got to hear an Irish nurse who returned to Ireland from Australia and had to go into hotel quarantine bitching about having to stay in a hotel room and not have a birthday party for her daughter. She was demanding that she and her family be given an apartment, so her daughter could have a birthday party with the extended family. RTE didn't pull her on the fact that she intended to breach the quarantine rules though.

There's a horrible contempt with a lot of Irish people towards homeless Irish people. A view that it's somehow their own fault and they're all drug addicts or layabouts. But people lose their homes for all sorts of reasons. People get sick and can't work and can't pay rent or mortgage, then they and their kids end up in hotels or B&B's with no certainty about the future.

People are struggling to keep their heads above water and the view of many a middle class retired Irish person whose nest is well feathered and whose kids are grown up and settled is **** em, they should train and get a better job. If those people who are struggling are on a hospital waiting list or their kids are on hospital waiting lists again it's **** em, they should have private health insurance, they should get a better paid job. Oh, they're only too delighted to run off up to the local hotel to spend time with the Ukrainians, they get to tell everyone they know about it and signal the aul virture.

Mind you, they won't be bringing any of the Ukrainians to their houses to cook them a meal or taking them up to the Golf club or to the Bridge club to introduce to their friends. The attitude of **** our own under a bus so we can help the foreigner needs to end. We can't take in the world's poor but we can look after our own. We're spending money we don't have on people we've no obligation to and what's worse is we're borrowing the money to do it.

rgossip30 · 27-06-2022 1:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119247528#Comment_119247528

Does this mean you are changing your opinion ?

What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

Comments