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Breaking... US Supreme Court overturns Roe v Wade

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,103 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    It is a complicated situation but it seems that certain rights only being granted at state level has resulted in some obvious errors by states like slavery, bans on interracial-marriage and gay marriage. I think its dangerous for society to allow something for 50 years and then take it away based on the decision of nine individuals. No one can believe that the supreme court is unbiased given they are chosen specifically based on their ideologies.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,859 ✭✭✭growleaves


    That religious element have been there since the 1600s though. They've never not been there.

    So when people say things like "Its no longer the land of the free", "Its no longer a great country" its like Huh?



  • Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    A 20 something killed two gay men and planned to kill more but was arrested. What's to say? A quick Google search will give you oodles of links, including mention of community vigils and political reactions. Just because you have little recall of it being discussed doesn't mean it fell through the cracks.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,971 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    I will agree that childcare for working parents here needs far more support. However on the generality Ireland has very good parental benefits/leave and child allowance.

    I was talking about the US anyway, which you neatly avoided commenting on.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭Tonesjones


    Very simplistic pidgeon holing in your behalf there.

    For example I'm pro life but haven't been in a church in 30 years. I'm too old for fairytales.

    I do believe in not killing unborn children though.

    You don't have to be religious to have morals.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    Yeah, it's the pro-choice crowd who are violent, unhinged fascists.... 🙄


    This ruling is anti-woman. Simple as. If men who were the ones who won the genetic lottery and had to worry about getting pregnant, hyperemesis gravidarum, preeclampsia, ectopic pregnancy, Post-natal depression, breast feeding on demand, bringing up a child alone, putting their education / careers on hold etc., you'd be able to buy abortion pills over a drug store counter.

    As it is, men will never experience any of physical or emotional side-effects of pregnancy, yet it is mainly men in power (I suspect some of whom who are currently extolling the virtues of forced birth have personal experience of paying for the termination of unplanned pregnancies they contributed to) who are making these decisions.

    If women are to bear the brunt of child birth/care, perhaps it might be just as prudent to enact a policy whereby men are ordered to start paying child support from the time of conception. Or even better, let's see how they like having their bodily autonomy invaded by mandating vasectomies until the man in question feels 'ready' for fatherhood?

    Sound fair?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,103 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    I think you may find you are very much in the minority. The only countries in Europe that don't allow abortion are Poland and Malta both overwhelmingly Catholic. I think people do not want to force women to carry a pregnancy against their will, and that's how they make their moral judgement on abortion. We always hear from the Right the fear that Western Values are being threatened by immigration, well abortion, like it or not, is a Western value.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭BruteStock


    I'm judging society by today's standard, not 50 years ago. The left have become the new right, look at the dozens of parental clinics that have been attacked by crazed leftists over the last few weeks, not to mention the hit job attempt on Brett while he was home with his family



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,478 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    They have, but initially, they were fleeing Europe in search of religious freedom. The separation of church and state was a founding principle because of this. Now they seem to pick justices based on religious ideology over qualifications.



  • Registered Users Posts: 414 ✭✭dorothylives


    It was briefly covered until their murderer turned out to be the Muslim son of prominent local businessman. The family were granted asylum here and the guy grew up with a comfortable privileged life here, then he got into the old Dark Ages stuff and decided to stalk and murder two very vulnerable gay men simply because they were gay. The Dark Ages religion tends to be very keen on murdering gay people. I've no doubt he'll be found to have been suffering more 'mental illness' and be tucked away in a nice cosy mental institute somewhere.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭Tonesjones


    I highly doubt that my views are that much of an anomaly. I think people are underestimating the variety of views and opinions people have.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,998 ✭✭✭conorhal


    You see no irony in your statement given the fact that Roe V. Wade was a decision made by 9 individuals in the first place? Perhaps 9 people shouldn't have been making that decision, which is the root of the problem today. This is what you get when you encourage judicial activism, top down decisions imposed by a very few individuals making up law as the go along to suit themselves, often at odds with the constitution. Even RBG stated that it was a gross over-reach by the supreme court, but as a judge that was all about judicial activism, she was fine with that of course. But what's good for the goose and all that...

    The proper place for federal law to be passed is by congress or referendum. A congress that has had 50yrs to codify abortion legislation but didn't because of cowardice and convenience. Roe V. Wade was a ridiculous judgement based on a lie to twist the screws on the court (Roe was never raped) but was a lie and a bad judgement that suited the activists. Now they are baring the brunt of a bad call.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Mic 1972


    True, and i'm sure a lot of the current push back against progressive left has to do with the aggressive attitude coming from activists.



  • Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    No, it was widely covered until someone appeared in court, therefore the case is now sub-judice.

    Literally the same for any murder case. Once someone is charged, it is then a matter before the courts until a verdict. Anything that is said (such as what you said here) in between the point of someone being charged and a verdict can be detrimental to the proceedings.

    If you're going to post, make sure you have a clue what you're talking about first instead of peddling your conspiracy theory bile. It's the law, not what your la la land bullsh*t wants it to be.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,103 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    Probably true but the movement behind repealing roe vs wade was lead by the evangelicals in America and the two biggest organisations that lost the referendum here was a religious organisation and the Catholic church.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    If you'd bothered to read the piece, you'd see the attacks were monitered over the span of the last 50 years - still happening relatively recently, including murder. Kavanaugh wasn't murdered and received round-the-clock protection directly thanks to a bill signed by Joe Biden granting such protections to Supreme Curt justices and their families.

    The guy, who was suicidal and suffered with mental issues called the cops himself to confess to wanting to harm Kavanaugh in part, because he was distressed over the Ulvade school massacre and feared Kavanaugh would loosen existing gun laws (which, incidentally, he did). He wasn't part of a 'leftist' mob at all.

    Scare mongering is part and parcel of what keeps people like Trump in power, so I understand that mindset that has you believing all left leaning folk are violent fascists, but let's face it, it wasn't the lefties who violently infiltrated the Capitol building and attempted to over throw a Democratic election now, was it?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Mic 1972




  • Registered Users Posts: 16,562 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf



    The proper place for federal law to be passed is by congress or referendum. A congress that has had 50yrs to codify abortion legislation but didn't because of cowardice and convenience. 

    I find it hard to understand this but I don't really understand the American legislative system, with filibusters and supermajorities and all that. Given how many Democratic presidents and congressional leaders have been strongly pro-choice over the years, I can only conclude there is a serious block in the system to getting such legislation on the books.



  • Registered Users Posts: 408 ✭✭Starfire20


    the root of the problem is the people that think a fetus should have the same or greater rights than that of a woman.

    but once born, it's fu*k you, shouldn't have had sex in the first place, guffaw guffaw

    disgusting



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,010 ✭✭✭Christy42


    Do you not consider people to have gone through a hysterectomy to be women?


    The right goes on about what is a woman question but any of their off the cuff definitions don't even match what they think a woman is.


    I suspect a large part of why women is used is because any thread I have seen referring to people with regards abortion gets taken off track pretty quickly as people seem to get really offended by referring to women as people for whatever reason.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭BruteStock




  • Registered Users Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal




  • Registered Users Posts: 7,859 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Most of the early colonies and then states were self-contained theocracies with state-sponsored churches and 'the separation of church and state' at that time meant that there wouldn't be an Established church lording it over the others.* Like in Ireland where Prebyterians and Catholics had to pay tithes to the Anglican Church and Catholics had to hold masses in secret.

    Allowing each state to make its own laws re: abortion is like a return to that. There are enough atheists in the USA that they can essentially maintain several atheist states like California, New York, Rhode Island, Vermont etc. Anyone who is uncomfortable with Evangelicism or Mormonism can pack their things and go and live in one of these states.

    So there is still religious freedom and plenty of freedom from religion if that's what you're having yourself. What there isn't (or shouldn't be) is an a-theocracy which makes a-religious customs, beliefs and practices mandatory for all 50 states regardless of whether local majorities in these states want that or not.

    *This phrase, which has no legal standing whatsoever afaik, comes from a personal letter Thomas Jefferson wrote to the Danbury Baptists in Connecticut explaining to them that the federal government couldn't and wouldn't pick favourites between different religions.

    Besides which Thomas, Roberts etc. do not use religious ideology formally in their decisions. Its actually a low-key conspiracy theory to say they are crypto-Catholic subverters (though maybe they are!) since that is certainly not how their legal opinions are set out. At least I didn't see any references to Holy God or the Sacred Heart in the decision in the news stories covering this SC decision.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Mic 1972


    You are kicking a dead horse here

    This thread is about abortion, it affects women who can get pregnant. Everybody including you understands this perfectly. If you think men can get pregnant too there are other threads to disucss



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    That's a pretty boring radicalization if he's turning himself in.... If anything, it's a man with mental health issues who offered self up to authorities cause he viewed self to be a public danger. He never harmed anyone.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,076 ✭✭✭Curse These Metal Hands


    The fact remains that there are people legally recognised as men with the capacity to get pregnant.

    Whether you like it or not, they are affected by this too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,010 ✭✭✭Christy42


    Like I said in my belated edit, it tends to be best to assume they are in the whole being talked about. Threads go off topic quickly in the ones I have seen stating this effects people (didn't even specify trans men, just people) as people got real offended in spite of the fact that no matter your opinion on trans people, women are in fact people.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,103 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    This doesnt make sense- no one is forcing irreligious practices on religious people- a religious person can be against homosexuality if they see fit but why should they prevent the state from allowing state marriages between gay people, they are not forcing churchs to marry them. There should be a limited level of rights that everyone in the united states should have or else you could return to the abomination of interracial marriages being illegal, gay rights being revoked based on religious grounds etc. These rights should be in law but again they can be blocked by religious senators. Its a broken system if people in some states have less rights than others, sure you could say that once lead to a civil war there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,859 ✭✭✭growleaves


    You can't fight a civil war every time one of these issues comes up. Especially gay marriage which even didn't exist a few years ago and almost no one had heard of it, why is that fundamental to civillised life? Essentially its like multiple countries in one country. There has to be some flex or maybe they would be better off splitting up into different countries (though worse off in no longer having one 50-state economic powershouse)

    And not that I agree with it obviously - but they turn a blind eye to slavery in Saudi Arabia, Dubai and similar places which are US client states of a kind. Its hidden but not hidden very well.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    I would say that if you a woman in the states that will now have less rights than they did before you would be p!ssed off. Who likes losing rights, especially ones they had for 50 years? I guess the reference to the Taliban is because they so happen to share a lot of similar views with the American brand of religious fanatacism, evangelicals. It is also a mess as the supreme court has shown it can be politically compromised and in a few decades perhaps the democrats will fill it and change this ruling. The law should be the law no matter what the political or religious persuasion of the supreme justice is.

    And the liberals are still whining. What this conservative majority supreme court have done is took the hot potato that is abortion and flung it back onto the desks of state capitols to deal with. I'd hate to see the froth at the mouth if they started working through abortion legal cases that came their way and eroded the original Roe-V-Wade which would effect all states. Liberals are never happy, eh? Your reference to democrats filling the SC is quite telling as it pertains to you wanting your ethical grievances resolved by a court to over-rule states that don't want that overreach.



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