Homeless - they are not rough sleepers

macvin · 27-06-2022 9:03pm #1

Why is there not more explanation or even a better name for "Homeless".

In the south there are circa 10,000 people in short-term accommodation. In Northern Ireland there are about 3500 "family units" in short term accommodation. (In the North a family unit can be a single person or a family of 10, so difficult to have a "person" count).

ALL of these people both North and South have a regular place to stay / sleep even if its not ideal. They are not sleeping rough.

But look on social media and if someone suggests a closed hotel or a convent be used for Ukranians, the comments that follow are always "what about the Irish homeless" "think of our own" and more xenophobic crap like that. Most seem to this that the 10,000 people in short term accommodation here or the 3500 family units in short term accommodation in the North are sleeping rough every night. They're not.

Here's some figures to ponder. Of the 10,000 people in short-term accommodation, 7,000 are adults, of these 5,000 are in Dublin. The other 2,000 are spread amongst the other 25 counties - the lowest being Longford at just 15.

So its very much a Dublin issue. Cork, Limerick & Galway represent another 1100, so spread amongst 22 counties there are just 900 adults in temporary accommodation. Many of them are people recently given refugee status and they find it very difficult to get landlords to rent to them, many are also from the traveller community who also find difficulty renting, many also have been made homeless due to anti social issues - both as those causing anti social issues and those trying to get away from anti-social issues. So a one fit all system will not work

So maybe people should think a little. "Homeless" does not mean rough sleepers. All homeless are in some form of accommodation and the creation of bed spaces in convents, offices, old hotels, conference centres, other hotels etc does not in any way affect the "Irish people also in temporary accommodation themselves.

And as for those thinking sinn fein will wave a magic wand, they should check figures in Belfast, Strabane & Derry. If a spotlight was put on the sinn fein councils there, and what little stormont has done over the past few years, people would ask more questions. Ideally an all party group that is given a 5 year mandate regardless of who is in government or who controls what councils is what is needed. Would sinn fein agree to such a progressive idea?

Yurt2 · 27-06-2022 9:10pm

This thread wont go the way you think it will go.

Irelandsnumberone · 27-06-2022 9:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058252098/homeless-they-are-not-rough-sleepers

Another thread having a go at SF

Just what boards needs

macvin · 27-06-2022 9:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119259208#Comment_119259208

it not a sf thread. They are the main opposition party. An all party approach should be looked at (pity Michael D didn't suggest that - pity he didn't suggest anything at all when it went off on a rant) and the main aim to to get people to realise that Ukranians in short term accommodation do not affect any Irish people in short term accommodation. Recently arrived Ukranians cannot even go onto housing lists, but the agitators don't want to hear this and spout mis information and then those who don't / won't check the facts, just go along with the agitators.

27-06-2022 9:17pm

?????? What's your point??? A lot of " meandering ' in that post. When anyone is unfortunate enough not to have keys to their own front door to " bed down" for the night, if they're dependent on b&b or short-term accommodation then, yes, they are homeless........ rough sleeping is a whole different can of worms. Politically, I doubt anyone thinks SF have this " magic wand" you talk about

Wezz · 27-06-2022 9:19pm

Rough sleeping is just one facet of homelessness as I’m sure you well know OP. If I choose to leave my family home because of abuse and sleep on the streets am I homeless or not? If I’m sleeping on someone’s couch hoping they won’t get fed up of me am I homeless? It’s not just about the roof over your head.

walshb · 27-06-2022 9:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119259237#Comment_119259237

Michael D, like an awful lot a people couldn’t give a toss about “homelessness.” It’s simply low hanging fruit to him and others.

27-06-2022 9:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119259246#Comment_119259246

Nope, I couldn't make 'head nor tail' of it either.......probably just trolling

Jequ0n · 27-06-2022 9:24pm

Well you cannot deny that the term “homelessness” is overused.

SEPT 23 1989 · 27-06-2022 9:48pm

putting the boot into Irish people with fcuk all to suit your warped agenda takes real guts

I hope it keeps well for you OP

One eyed Jack · 27-06-2022 9:50pm

Why is there not more explanation or even a better name for "Homeless".

What better name or explanation is needed for describing anyone without a home as being homeless? In the same way, this thread which doesn’t seem to have a point, could be described as pointless.

By way of being helpful though, under the Housing Act of 1998, a person is described as homeless in the following circumstances -

2.—A person shall be regarded by a housing authority as being homeless for the purposes of this Act if—

(a) there is no accommodation available which, in the opinion of the authority, he, together with any other person who normally resides with him or who might reasonably be expected to reside with him, can reasonably occupy or remain in occupation of, or

(b) he is living in a hospital, county home, night shelter or other such institution, and is so living because he has no accommodation of the kind referred to in paragraph (a),

and he is, in the opinion of the authority, unable to provide accommodation from his own resources.

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1988/act/28/section/2/enacted/en/html#sec2

Brucie Bonus · 27-06-2022 9:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058252098/homeless-they-are-not-rough-sleepers

And as for those thinking sinn fein will wave a magic wand

Nobody ever thinks that. Literally nobody.

Homeless means you don't have a place of your own to rent or own. Sleeping in accommodation set aside for homeless people, doesn't mean you're not homeless. I expect this is just another dreary have a go at the most popular political party north and south of the border, which is fine, just cut the theatrics. Homeless people have enough to be going on with.

Brucie Bonus · 27-06-2022 10:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119259266#Comment_119259266

Michael D. is on his second term as President. He's no need for 'likes'. IMO he's accurately telling it like it is exactly because he couldn't give a toss...about any fall out.

Jim_Hodge · 27-06-2022 10:07pm

In the south there are circa 10,000 people in short-term accommodation.

@macvin

In the South - how far south? Do you mean the Cork /Kerry area?

Dempo1 · 27-06-2022 10:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058252098/homeless-they-are-not-rough-sleepers

Not at all sure what your looking for, Comprehension lessons, I can guess what your trying to do but even those with limited intelligence can tell the difference between Homeless in emergency temporary accommodation and Rough sleepers (it's in the description, ROUGH SLEEPERS) 🙄

What you appear to be conflating is the Difference between those who are Homeless & in emergency accommodation who get a voucher in the hope a hotel, Guest house will accept them, little security of residency, can be given hours to move on, may have to vacate premises at certain hours and certainly get no meal plan thrown in.

And Ukrainian Refugees who have no such challenges or concerns, Meal plan thrown in and other generous supports and of course not treated like pariahs, along with fluffy donations and drowned in virtue signalling.

Of course I'm just guessing your confused and glad to spell it out for you 🙄

There's no magic wand required, just common sense, sadly lacking in this government.

standardg60 · 27-06-2022 10:15pm

Describing people as 'homeless' is just a way of stirring up emotion. Surely anyone who rents or lives at home with parents could be described as the same?

Anyone who is provided with living accommodation free of charge by the state no matter what it is is not homeless. People who choose to work their asses off to buy their own home and provide housing through their taxes for those who can't or won't provide their own should be at least entitled to voice their opinions in contrast to the never ending one way focus the media portray.

Dempo1 · 27-06-2022 10:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119259393#Comment_119259393

It won't 😏

lmao10 · 27-06-2022 10:16pm

You've obviously never stepped into those emergency accomodation places. Sleeping in close proximity to people on drugs, with HIV/AIDS, drug paraphernalia all over the place, people just waiting to rob anything they can off you. You can't have a decent kip in the same place with addicts who will do anything for their next fix. That's homelessness though and addiction comes with the territory but when people say they'd rather sleep rough than sleep in the emergency hostels, it's legit and some feel they have little choice. It just doesn't feel safe there for many. I'm not talking about the ones in the cushy hotels complaining.

Dempo1 · 27-06-2022 10:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119259435#Comment_119259435

Here we go again 🙄 😏

Dempo1 · 27-06-2022 10:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119259207#Comment_119259207

indeed , here we go again 😏

Dempo1 · 27-06-2022 10:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119259208#Comment_119259208

It's extraordinary and getting embarrassing at this stage 🙄

macvin · 27-06-2022 10:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119259263#Comment_119259263

at last count in April there were 91 rough sleepers in Dublin. But so many people seem to think that the 10,000 in temporary accommodation are sleeping rough and then have xenophobic outbreaks whenever a building is considered for use as emergency accommodation. The salvation army building and the fucwits that broke in is a classic example.

macvin · 27-06-2022 10:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119259519#Comment_119259519

Here's a classic example of the problem.

Most of those in temporary accommodation are in hotels and b&b's. Some are in private hostels. You like many people are mixing up the emergency accommodation that is used by rough sleepers with council emergency accommodation. The council accommodation is a mix of b&bs, hotels, private hostels and family hubs and also short term housing lets. They are not shared dorms used by drug users or those suffering from alcoholism which is categorised as charity supported hostel accommodation (approx. 400 bed spaces). There is a very very distinct difference.

Dempo1 · 27-06-2022 10:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119259542#Comment_119259542

I'm glad to see you at least have the ability to read but still not getting, no one with an ounce of intelligence thinks 10k are sleeping rough in Ireland , were in heavens name are you getting this bizzare notion from and whats going on with magic wand of yours 🤔

Maybe cut down of your consumption of Harry Potter books 🙄

corner of hells · 27-06-2022 10:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119259519#Comment_119259519

Oh I dunno , I'm a long time working in homeless hostels , can't say there's paraphernalia laying all over the place , we do occasionally recover some, but most addicts dispose their sharps in sharps bins.Lots aren't in addiction and many more are stable.

I've worked with quite a few with HIV , again it doesn't terrorise me .

As for rough sleepers , it's between 90 and 120 in Dublin city , meaning large amounts of individuals bed down nightly in hostels, safe and secure often in single rooms.

Don't get me wrong , hostels aren't for the faint hearted.

macvin · 27-06-2022 10:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119259562#Comment_119259562

Read the comments under any news story or facebook post about providing accommodation for Ukranians and you will see that the vast majority of the xenophobic posts think that there are 10,000 people sleeping rough. I'd go further than what you say and claim that they do not have a gram of intelligence, and there are many that stupid out there.

But an all party and possibly all island single entity approach to housing is needed rather than a partisan almost council by council approach. Many of those in temporary accommodation need to be persuaded to look moving outside Dublin too and given the supports to integrate in those areas.

Dempo1 · 27-06-2022 10:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119259591#Comment_119259591

Honestly I don't do Facebook and perhaps a few nut jobs twist a narrative to suit their warped agendas but I've not heard even the most ardent of people who have strongest views on the Ukrainian refugee crisis believe for a moment there are 10k rough sleeping, yes now over 10k Homeless and in emergency Accommodation, not sleeping on the streets.

Fandymo · 27-06-2022 11:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058252098/homeless-they-are-not-rough-sleepers

“home

[ hohm ]

noun

a house, apartment, or other shelter that is the usual residence of a person, family, or household.”

Short term accommodation is not a home. Someone without a home is homeless.

Homeless does not equal shelterless, however a shelter is not a home.

This is very basic level stuff.

growleaves · 27-06-2022 11:26pm

'Maybe cut down of your consumption of Harry Potter books 🙄'

Nooooooo!!!!

lmao10 · 28-06-2022 12:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119259557#Comment_119259557

Who can get into the council emergency accommodation though? Women/families. The average male rough sleeper ends up in emergency accomodation the likes of which I've described or sleeping on the street. If they could get into a hotel or bnb they wouldn't be sleeping rough

lmao10 · 28-06-2022 12:10am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119259580#Comment_119259580

You're there cleaning up after the fact. You're not there kipping in the place yourself with the addicts yet you act like you are 100% sure of whats going on. There is a reason a lot of guys sleep rough rather than sleep there. Many reasons in fact.

Homeless - they are not rough sleepers

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