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Homeless - they are not rough sleepers

  • 27-06-2022 8:03pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 716 ✭✭✭


    Why is there not more explanation or even a better name for "Homeless".

    In the south there are circa 10,000 people in short-term accommodation. In Northern Ireland there are about 3500 "family units" in short term accommodation. (In the North a family unit can be a single person or a family of 10, so difficult to have a "person" count).

    ALL of these people both North and South have a regular place to stay / sleep even if its not ideal. They are not sleeping rough.


    But look on social media and if someone suggests a closed hotel or a convent be used for Ukranians, the comments that follow are always "what about the Irish homeless" "think of our own" and more xenophobic crap like that. Most seem to this that the 10,000 people in short term accommodation here or the 3500 family units in short term accommodation in the North are sleeping rough every night. They're not.

    Here's some figures to ponder. Of the 10,000 people in short-term accommodation, 7,000 are adults, of these 5,000 are in Dublin. The other 2,000 are spread amongst the other 25 counties - the lowest being Longford at just 15.

    So its very much a Dublin issue. Cork, Limerick & Galway represent another 1100, so spread amongst 22 counties there are just 900 adults in temporary accommodation. Many of them are people recently given refugee status and they find it very difficult to get landlords to rent to them, many are also from the traveller community who also find difficulty renting, many also have been made homeless due to anti social issues - both as those causing anti social issues and those trying to get away from anti-social issues. So a one fit all system will not work


    So maybe people should think a little. "Homeless" does not mean rough sleepers. All homeless are in some form of accommodation and the creation of bed spaces in convents, offices, old hotels, conference centres, other hotels etc does not in any way affect the "Irish people also in temporary accommodation themselves.


    And as for those thinking sinn fein will wave a magic wand, they should check figures in Belfast, Strabane & Derry. If a spotlight was put on the sinn fein councils there, and what little stormont has done over the past few years, people would ask more questions. Ideally an all party group that is given a 5 year mandate regardless of who is in government or who controls what councils is what is needed. Would sinn fein agree to such a progressive idea?



Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    This thread wont go the way you think it will go.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 648 ✭✭✭Irelandsnumberone


    Another thread having a go at SF

    Just what boards needs



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 716 ✭✭✭macvin


    it not a sf thread. They are the main opposition party. An all party approach should be looked at (pity Michael D didn't suggest that - pity he didn't suggest anything at all when it went off on a rant) and the main aim to to get people to realise that Ukranians in short term accommodation do not affect any Irish people in short term accommodation. Recently arrived Ukranians cannot even go onto housing lists, but the agitators don't want to hear this and spout mis information and then those who don't / won't check the facts, just go along with the agitators.



  • Posts: 1,344 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ?????? What's your point??? A lot of " meandering ' in that post. When anyone is unfortunate enough not to have keys to their own front door to " bed down" for the night, if they're dependent on b&b or short-term accommodation then, yes, they are homeless........ rough sleeping is a whole different can of worms. Politically, I doubt anyone thinks SF have this " magic wand" you talk about



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 170 ✭✭Wezz


    Rough sleeping is just one facet of homelessness as I’m sure you well know OP. If I choose to leave my family home because of abuse and sleep on the streets am I homeless or not? If I’m sleeping on someone’s couch hoping they won’t get fed up of me am I homeless? It’s not just about the roof over your head.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 58,231 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Michael D, like an awful lot a people couldn’t give a toss about “homelessness.” It’s simply low hanging fruit to him and others.



  • Posts: 1,344 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Nope, I couldn't make 'head nor tail' of it either.......probably just trolling



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,412 ✭✭✭Jequ0n


    Well you cannot deny that the term “homelessness” is overused.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,037 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    putting the boot into Irish people with fcuk all to suit your warped agenda takes real guts

    I hope it keeps well for you OP



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,524 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Why is there not more explanation or even a better name for "Homeless".


    What better name or explanation is needed for describing anyone without a home as being homeless? In the same way, this thread which doesn’t seem to have a point, could be described as pointless.

    By way of being helpful though, under the Housing Act of 1998, a person is described as homeless in the following circumstances -

    2.—A person shall be regarded by a housing authority as being homeless for the purposes of this Act if—

    (a) there is no accommodation available which, in the opinion of the authority, he, together with any other person who normally resides with him or who might reasonably be expected to reside with him, can reasonably occupy or remain in occupation of, or

    (b) he is living in a hospital, county home, night shelter or other such institution, and is so living because he has no accommodation of the kind referred to in paragraph (a),

    and he is, in the opinion of the authority, unable to provide accommodation from his own resources.

    https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1988/act/28/section/2/enacted/en/html#sec2



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    And as for those thinking sinn fein will wave a magic wand

    Nobody ever thinks that. Literally nobody.

    Homeless means you don't have a place of your own to rent or own. Sleeping in accommodation set aside for homeless people, doesn't mean you're not homeless. I expect this is just another dreary have a go at the most popular political party north and south of the border, which is fine, just cut the theatrics. Homeless people have enough to be going on with.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    Michael D. is on his second term as President. He's no need for 'likes'. IMO he's accurately telling it like it is exactly because he couldn't give a toss...about any fall out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,932 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    In the south there are circa 10,000 people in short-term accommodation.

    @macvin

    In the South - how far south? Do you mean the Cork /Kerry area?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,076 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Not at all sure what your looking for, Comprehension lessons, I can guess what your trying to do but even those with limited intelligence can tell the difference between Homeless in emergency temporary accommodation and Rough sleepers (it's in the description, ROUGH SLEEPERS) 🙄

    What you appear to be conflating is the Difference between those who are Homeless & in emergency accommodation who get a voucher in the hope a hotel, Guest house will accept them, little security of residency, can be given hours to move on, may have to vacate premises at certain hours and certainly get no meal plan thrown in.

    And Ukrainian Refugees who have no such challenges or concerns, Meal plan thrown in and other generous supports and of course not treated like pariahs, along with fluffy donations and drowned in virtue signalling.

    Of course I'm just guessing your confused and glad to spell it out for you 🙄

    There's no magic wand required, just common sense, sadly lacking in this government.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,337 ✭✭✭standardg60


    Describing people as 'homeless' is just a way of stirring up emotion. Surely anyone who rents or lives at home with parents could be described as the same?

    Anyone who is provided with living accommodation free of charge by the state no matter what it is is not homeless. People who choose to work their asses off to buy their own home and provide housing through their taxes for those who can't or won't provide their own should be at least entitled to voice their opinions in contrast to the never ending one way focus the media portray.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,076 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,311 ✭✭✭lmao10


    You've obviously never stepped into those emergency accomodation places. Sleeping in close proximity to people on drugs, with HIV/AIDS, drug paraphernalia all over the place, people just waiting to rob anything they can off you. You can't have a decent kip in the same place with addicts who will do anything for their next fix. That's homelessness though and addiction comes with the territory but when people say they'd rather sleep rough than sleep in the emergency hostels, it's legit and some feel they have little choice. It just doesn't feel safe there for many. I'm not talking about the ones in the cushy hotels complaining.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,076 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,076 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,076 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    It's extraordinary and getting embarrassing at this stage 🙄

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 716 ✭✭✭macvin


    at last count in April there were 91 rough sleepers in Dublin. But so many people seem to think that the 10,000 in temporary accommodation are sleeping rough and then have xenophobic outbreaks whenever a building is considered for use as emergency accommodation. The salvation army building and the fucwits that broke in is a classic example.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 716 ✭✭✭macvin


    Here's a classic example of the problem.

    Most of those in temporary accommodation are in hotels and b&b's. Some are in private hostels. You like many people are mixing up the emergency accommodation that is used by rough sleepers with council emergency accommodation. The council accommodation is a mix of b&bs, hotels, private hostels and family hubs and also short term housing lets. They are not shared dorms used by drug users or those suffering from alcoholism which is categorised as charity supported hostel accommodation (approx. 400 bed spaces). There is a very very distinct difference.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,076 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    I'm glad to see you at least have the ability to read but still not getting, no one with an ounce of intelligence thinks 10k are sleeping rough in Ireland , were in heavens name are you getting this bizzare notion from and whats going on with magic wand of yours 🤔

    Maybe cut down of your consumption of Harry Potter books 🙄

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,426 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    Oh I dunno , I'm a long time working in homeless hostels , can't say there's paraphernalia laying all over the place , we do occasionally recover some, but most addicts dispose their sharps in sharps bins.Lots aren't in addiction and many more are stable.


    I've worked with quite a few with HIV , again it doesn't terrorise me .

    As for rough sleepers , it's between 90 and 120 in Dublin city , meaning large amounts of individuals bed down nightly in hostels, safe and secure often in single rooms.

    Don't get me wrong , hostels aren't for the faint hearted.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 716 ✭✭✭macvin


    Read the comments under any news story or facebook post about providing accommodation for Ukranians and you will see that the vast majority of the xenophobic posts think that there are 10,000 people sleeping rough. I'd go further than what you say and claim that they do not have a gram of intelligence, and there are many that stupid out there.

    But an all party and possibly all island single entity approach to housing is needed rather than a partisan almost council by council approach. Many of those in temporary accommodation need to be persuaded to look moving outside Dublin too and given the supports to integrate in those areas.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,076 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Honestly I don't do Facebook and perhaps a few nut jobs twist a narrative to suit their warped agendas but I've not heard even the most ardent of people who have strongest views on the Ukrainian refugee crisis believe for a moment there are 10k rough sleeping, yes now over 10k Homeless and in emergency Accommodation, not sleeping on the streets.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    “home

    [ hohm ]

    noun

    a house, apartment, or other shelter that is the usual residence of a person, family, or household.”

    Short term accommodation is not a home. Someone without a home is homeless.

    Homeless does not equal shelterless, however a shelter is not a home.

    This is very basic level stuff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,976 ✭✭✭growleaves


    'Maybe cut down of your consumption of Harry Potter books 🙄'

    Nooooooo!!!!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,311 ✭✭✭lmao10


    Who can get into the council emergency accommodation though? Women/families. The average male rough sleeper ends up in emergency accomodation the likes of which I've described or sleeping on the street. If they could get into a hotel or bnb they wouldn't be sleeping rough



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,311 ✭✭✭lmao10


    You're there cleaning up after the fact. You're not there kipping in the place yourself with the addicts yet you act like you are 100% sure of whats going on. There is a reason a lot of guys sleep rough rather than sleep there. Many reasons in fact.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,426 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    Are you 100 % sure what goes on ? There are not a lot of rough sleepers , you can volunteer with DRHE and do the official count , it's done twice yearly. There's a variety of reasons why rough sleepers won't use hostels, mental ill health is a huge reason , chronic addiction, entrenched rough sleeping are all amongst the reasons.

    No , I don't sleep there but I've worked night and day in emergency accomodation for years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    My favourite part is when people prefer putting the homeless up in hotels, B&B's and private rentals rather than council owned homes. It's a classic 'cut your nose to spite your face' scenario.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,131 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    And yet here you are dictacting to and critiising someone on the frontline.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 296 ✭✭Ham_Sandwich


    in the north Sinn Fein have to fight against the british goverment for everything they are trying to sabotage them left and right, if we get them into power down here well be looked after they could tax the bankers and wed be looked after more housing more hospitals more education they could give the bins back to the councils and get rid of the bin charges



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    All joking aside, a government putting the tax payer first would be nice.

    As regards the homeless, we have been told over the years excuses such as 'its worse elsewhere', 'many are pretending to get on the housing list' etc. but as FF/FG find more of the electorate joining their ranks, they'll talk a poor game and provide ever poorer 'solutions'.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,426 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    I think you should run for election as a SF candidate. Your financial wizardry and knowledge is second to none.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,426 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    Being registered as homeless and in need of housing are different things.

    How do you pretend to get on this list ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,564 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    People who live at home with their parents are certainly on the housing list, and in certain circumstances, also may be part of the homeless numbers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,564 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    The paranoia runs deep with some. Didn't see mention of SF in the OP.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    I know. However homeless people are on the housing list and people have suggested they were only pretending to be homeless.

    Says the man so quick to get a dig in at the shinners he doesn't even read the OP.

    And as for those thinking sinn fein will wave a magic wand, they should check figures in Belfast, Strabane & Derry. If a spotlight was put on the sinn fein councils there, and what.....




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 387 ✭✭shirrup




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 648 ✭✭✭Irelandsnumberone


    The ending of the post was about SF ffs 🤣🤣🤣

    In case you missed it 'And as for those thinking sinn fein will wave a magic wand, they should check figures in Belfast, Strabane & Derry. If a spotlight was put on the sinn fein councils there, and what little stormont has done over the past few years, people would ask more questions. Ideally an all party group that is given a 5 year mandate regardless of who is in government or who controls what councils is what is needed. Would sinn fein agree to such a progressive idea?'



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,184 ✭✭✭riclad


    You are homeless if you are not currently renting , you do not live with your family, you may apply for hap and a landlord may rent you a room, flat, or you may be given a room in a hostel, hotel. If you walk around dublin you.ll.see people sleeping in the streets, maybe cos they don't want to live in a hostel, with stuff getting robbed, they feel safer on the streets. Some live in tents, homeless hostels are very basic. Women with children are usually sent to a hotel , they have to be in by 11pm approx. They have a TV. They get a free breakfast everyday.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,426 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    If you're registered as homeless, you qualify for homeless HAP , you don't have to apply for it.Most accommodation is 24hr , you don't have to be in by 11pm.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,184 ✭✭✭riclad


    I'm not taking about hostels, I'm saying some hotels had homeless women staying there, they had to be in by a certain time, say 11.30. Pm This is a standard hotel used by tourists , rules may have changed since then. You get a room, with en suite bathroom

    There's also hostels used only by the homeless. These can be a bit rough.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,311 ✭✭✭lmao10


    Practically impossible to rent on HAP I'd say. What landlord would take it these days?

    The hostels are very rough usually, you will see a lot of drug use. It was funny when a worker came on earlier in the thread and said it hardly happens, as if the lads are going to be sitting there doing it in front of the workers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,426 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    HAP is almost pointless at this stage.

    I work in homeless hostels and have for a long time, saying they're very rough is not true , they're definitely not for the faint hearted however many live there going about there business without issue.

    Of course there's drug use , low threshold hostels accomdate addicts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,426 ✭✭✭corner of hells




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,426 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    I was seconded in to hotel for a short while , there's no certain time you have to be in by.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,184 ✭✭✭riclad


    If you live at home you have to declare yourself homeless to be eligible for hap and get on the housing list, being homeless do, es not turn you into a drug addict or a criminal. Also i think alot of young people working people use drugs ,



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