Russia - threadbanned users in OP

odyssey06 · 28-06-2022 3:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262115#Comment_119262115

There was no coup unless you mean Russian attempts to subvert Ukrainian democracy.

Russia pressurised and conspired with the (then) elected president of Ukraine, so that he would not sign a trade treaty with the EU by initiating a trade war with Ukraine. A trade treaty that had the support of people and parliament.

In response to this, there were protests against the government. There was no military overthrow or seizure of the government. Public support for the protests grew due to the illegal response of the government, such as shootings of protestors.

Eventually, the president was removed by parliament and the treaty approved by parliament.

The conflict started in Donbas when Putin, as a result of seeing Ukraine escape from Russian orbit, sent in military personnel to foment a war.

How many civilians were killed in Donbas before Putin invaded Crimea?

How many civilians have been killed at Russian hands?

How many at Ukranian hands?

To equally call the two murderous regimes is completely without merit or foundation, is utterly dishonest Russian propaganda. One is a fledgling democracy, struggling first against Russia fomented separatists and then a full scale Russian invasion to extinguish that democracy.

The other is a gangster fascist dictatorship which has shown it has no respect for civilian casualties first in Chechnya now in Ukraine.

is_that_so · 28-06-2022 3:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262507#Comment_119262507

I am talking about an immediate small post-Putin window where they can shove him under the bus and reverse this. That is a get out of jail free card and probably a cynical pragmatic one but whether they'll do it is another question. Inheriting an increasingly impoverished country with an ongoing brain drain may focus those minds a bit.

electric_sleep · 28-06-2022 3:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262429#Comment_119262429

Pure evil murdering scum who needs to be removed from office as soon as possible for the sake not just of Russia, but for the world.

zv2 · 28-06-2022 3:36pm

Video of the missile strike

https://twitter.com/IPurdley/status/1541788106650783748?s=20&t=Qe6DMoVCNXJTNkn8w03yCg

odyssey06 · 28-06-2022 3:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262536#Comment_119262536

Complete pack of lies.

There was no 'far right' takeover of Ukraine. Ukraine post 2014 functioned as a democratic government. It did not engage in murder of civilians or ethnic cleansing.

How can Ukraine be an aggressor. They invaded nobody. They were defending their territory in a civil war in that region instigated and armed by Russia. That is aggressor action.

The US likewise has gone out of its way to give Ukraine defensive weapons only.

The country going around invading and executing civilians and deporting civilians is Russia.

There is only one aggressor here.

Strazdas · 28-06-2022 3:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262524#Comment_119262524

Looking at the various CCTV videos posted on social media today of the moment of impact, that was a huge blast that hit the shopping mall. Some of these cameras were located 500m away in a park and yet we see loads of debris landing in the lake, the fixed cameras shaking violently and civilians running in terror.

A total war crime to be firing missiles like that into a city in the middle of an afternoon, despite what all the Putin bots (i.e. psychopaths) on social media are saying.

Yurt2 · 28-06-2022 3:42pm

Just a little message to the pro-Russian little Haw Haws that keep re-registering (it's likely a cohort of no more than three losers operating in shifts).

No one gives a sh*t about your tall-tales about the Ukrainian government since 2014. We're all adults and media literate here, and we don't swallow garbage cooked up by propagandists in Moscow for you to disseminate. Many of us posting will have spent time in both Ukraine, Russia and elsewhere in the region. We know what we're looking at.

As long as the Kremlin prosecutes this fascist war, and as long as you try to sell it to us in the West as something Russia has to do, know this:

The Russian invaders, man-by-man, will be butchered in Ukraine - and in doing so, they will be backed to the hilt by Western governments and Western civil society. If those young Russian men are lucky, they will be sent home in sealed metal boxes so their mothers may mourn them. The rest will have their eternal rest in the black earth of Ukraine. No one to honour them, unremembered and despised by future generations.

This war will devour Russia's soul as a nation. And Ukraine and the West are going to make it so.

If you care for the future of Russia, you have a project on your hands. You can redeem the nation by ensuring the fascist cabal in Moscow are eviscerated, paraded in the streets as the criminals they are, and sent to the damp cold prisons that they consign democracy activists in Russia now.

The choice is yours. Russia brought this war to Europe, but they don't get to say how it will end.

electric_sleep · 28-06-2022 3:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262557#Comment_119262557

Did you completely miss the entire violent dismantling of the Ukrainian government by far right thugs in 2014? It was televised for weeks, there for all to see. It's still there if you just go and look it up.

No ethnic Russian-Ukrainians were being killed in Donbas because the far right had not yet been allowed to run amok amongst the Russian leaning populace, the previous Ukrainian regime would never have allowed it. The new regime not only allowed it, they armed them, turned over the policing of their cities to them and eventually absorbed them into the regular armed forces. They've only recently gotten them to drop the Swastika's because it looks bad when they're out begging for NATO handouts.

When john Kerry is standing on stage next to Banderite revolutionaries at the protest talking about America supporting their movement, followed by the ousting of the elected government by violent gangs of thugs, that's called a coup.

Russians killed many civilians too, this is not a defense of Russia, it's a condemnation of the Ukrainians war on a section of their own populations, of course I condemn Russias war on Ukraine. But this issue is much more complicated than simply a war of aggression by one nation against another. It's a civil war too and until that factor is addressed and discussed at the international level no peace will be possible.

28-06-2022 3:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262115#Comment_119262115

So Russia didnt like what was going on in Donbas so they invaded the whole country trying to take Kiev, causing unbelivable destuction to people far more than Donbas and what was up with the Bucha massacre? was Kherson oppressed too? isnt it genocide when the kick out the ukrainans out of these areas and give over their properties and valuables to russians, put in their own currency, hand out russian passports, trying to force the locals as conscripts into the war? Seems Russia has been playing a long term game in Ukraine for decades to make it into something like Belarus, with the change of goverment in 2014 in Ukraine to a more western friendly one, that was the trigger for Putin

odyssey06 · 28-06-2022 3:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262619#Comment_119262619

There was no coup.

Why didn't the Ukranian president sign the EU trade treaty?

Why did huge numbers of people go onto the streets in protest?

The regime collapsed not because of the opposition of the far right but because it has lost the support of the people and parliament.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/13/ukraine-uprising-fascist-coup-grassroots-movement

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26468720

There is no 'war' by Ukraine against its own people. There would be no war in Donbas if Russia had not instigated it. And if Russia had not instigated that war, Ukranian government would not have needed to rely on far right support to defend Donbas.

If Ukraine was engaged in a war against its own people in Donbas for years, where is the evidence? There were 3500 civilian casualties in the region 2014-2021 due to the military activity in the area. There is no evidence of a Ukranian war against the civilian population.

The country going around invading and executing civilians and deporting civilians is Russia.

There is only one aggressor here.

zv2 · 28-06-2022 3:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262619#Comment_119262619

A little context here-

The Facts on 'De-Nazifying' Ukraine - FactCheck.org

Yurt2 · 28-06-2022 4:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262619#Comment_119262619

Propagandist swill.

Any number of posters could dismantle this line-by-line and send you fleeing in a rage-quit like so many of your previous accounts.

Know this: As long as the war is prosecuted by the Kremlin, young Russian men will be sent to their graves by the thousands.

I recommend you watch the Russian movie Zinky Boys go Underground from the early 90s. Pay attention to the scene where the wheelchair-bound young Afghanistan war veteran on the subway has a psychotic break and claims he is haunted by the Mujahedeen who stalk him back to Moscow. Just as Afghanistan broke tens of thousands of young Russian men and their state, so too will Ukrainians break this generation.

If you care for your family in Russia, tell the young men to run from the conscription enforcers that are coming to the streets. They will be carrion for Ukrainian crows. They will find their eternal rest underneath the frozen Ukrainian groud. Not even a cross to mark their grave.

electric_sleep · 28-06-2022 4:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262492#Comment_119262492

Yes no doubt just as the Americans worked with the Russophobic elements in West Ukraine, the Russians were fostering the Pro-Russian elements in the East, and obviously Russia have been heavily arming them since 2014 and I've no doubt acting within their ranks as 'little green men'. This was played out in the worst possible way when MH17 was shot down by a Russian weapons system supposedly operated by Ukrainian Pro-Russian separatists. I say supposedly because it could easily have been a misfire by an inept Russian military unit.

There are a lot of people in East Ukraine and Crimea, and even throughout Ukraine as a whole that for whatever personal reasons mourn the loss of the USSR and still have some inner compass pointing to Russia. Of course an imperialist Putin will capitalise on that.

That's why this war is a USA-UK/Russia proxy war, a Ukrainian civil war as well as a war of invasion/defence. There are so many factors to it, what we know only scratches the surface.

I strongly believe that feeding Kiev weapons without actively trying to get Russia and Kiev round a table is only extending the suffering of the Ukrainian civilians of all stripes. Russia will keep coming, that's a reality, Putin will go all the way to the nukes if he has to, I've no doubt about that. Unless NATO want to actually fight WW3 we need to make a choice. Yes it's a bad choice, but the reality is Ukraine has lost territory. It may regain some but I doubt it will ever see Crimea and most of the Donbas again. Unless the West is willing to start throwing nukes at Moscow then that's the way it will be, and mature heads need to see that and start making plans for the best possible outcome for the civilians of Ukraine.

I'm for whatever stops the casualties quickest. I doubt people in a village somewhere in Donbas give a damn who's throwing missiles at them at this stage, they just want it to stop so they can send their kids to school. Whether they pay their taxes in Hryvnia or Rubles is probably not their concern at this stage.

electric_sleep · 28-06-2022 4:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262539#Comment_119262539

You are right. I avoided this thread for a long time because I knew it would wind me up, not in the least because people I love dearly in Ireland hold both Russian and Ukrainian citizenship. When I saw people calling for the mass expulsion of ordinary Russians from Ireland I had to say something. The Irish should be extremely weary of the idea of collective punishment given our not so distant history.

realdanbreen · 28-06-2022 4:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262608#Comment_119262608

Hear hear, slava Ukraine 🇺🇦

Yurt2 · 28-06-2022 4:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262712#Comment_119262712

Russia will indeed keep coming, and in the other direction will flow sealed boxes containing what is left of poor young men from the provinces that were put there by some of the most corrupt and murderous wealthy men to ever disgrace Russia.

Young man, by young man. This war will shatter first tens of thousands of Russian families, and eventually the Russian state.

Don't pretend you're a peacenik all of a sudden. You fantasize of some sort of Russian victory declaration. You won't get it, and you should prepare yourself for that.

timmyntc · 28-06-2022 4:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262519#Comment_119262519

Looks like we'll not be getting any peace talks so!

Yurt2 · 28-06-2022 4:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262771#Comment_119262771

I think you may be surprised. Intelligence suggests that at current death rate, they are running out of cohesive trained combat units before they have to start collaring non-professional conscripts from the streets and trying to make an army out of them.

This will get ugly for Russia when they start that.

electric_sleep · 28-06-2022 4:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262732#Comment_119262732

I don't support Russia, I just don't support the Ukrainian government either. Wrap your mind around that. My points have been consistent.

I first argued against collective punishment of ordinary Russians in Ireland. I then gave some background on the political tinderbox that was Ukraine in the lead up to this war. I condemn Russias aggression. Western leaders should be using everything in their power to force both sides to hammer out a peace deal. Part of that process will involve recognising the plight of the Ukrainians who are no longer welcome in Ukraine since 2014.

Oh and I am not your bogeyman whomever you think I may be. Yes I have had boards accounts on and off for years, since way back when it first started. I gave up posting regularly on boards a long time ago (because it was infested with people like you) but was, against my better judgement, drawn into this thread by the disgusting level of ignorance and bigotry on display here.

One thing about Boards that I'm disappointed to see, it's a cesspit now compared to what it once was when it comes to moderation.

You've been provided with the truth, history will bear it out, and you will continue to be a useful (Insert Karl Marx quote here). Good luck to ya.

Wibbs · 28-06-2022 4:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262492#Comment_119262492

Donbas is and was a clusterfúck of epic proportions. A Ukrainian woman I knew when I was asking about her country in general it came up and she described the place as "your Northern Ireland Troubles on steroids". Oh and that was just over a decade ago, so long before Crimea and the civil war stuff. She was from the western part of Ukraine, but had a background mix of Russian and Ukrainian like quite a percentage would.

Post the USSR going bang, people in those regions voted to not stay with Russia(IIRC by a large majority), but it seems to get complicated after that, with a large part of that complexity coming from Ukraine's back and forth Russian influence and corrupt oligarchs in government. Since that shifted and after Crimea it got more complex and more heated. I suppose and this is only supposition; when the Ukrainian government were on the other end of the phoneline to Moscow, any seperatist ideas were quiet enough, but when that changed....

And someone would want to be high on glue to not think that Ukrainian interests as well as Russian weren't fomenting and supporting trouble and torturing and killing people depending on which side they were on. There are enough independent reports that paint both as utter dicks supporting their side in this. The Donbas has and is being fought over like two mangy dogs at a bone and if you don't believe the Yanks weren't fleas on one dog I have magic beans to sell you.

And I agree with the Electric Sheep poster regarding quite a bit of western media. The BBC they mentioned an obvious one. The same BBC were having their usual moral panic over the rise of the "Far Right" and were regularly pointing at Ukraine. So were outlets like the Guardian and US outlets like Time, NYT et al and indeed US government agency reports(they were particularly concerned with the Far Right there recruiting on social media). Since this Russian invasion, they've all suffered mass amnesia on the matter. The Beeb even "fact checking" Azov and pulling back hard from their previous position and that yeah there are some "nazis" but it's only a minority y'know. A complete about face. The reality is likely somewhere in the middle. The other joke being the BBC et al were ramping up their moral panic about nazis in Ukraine after actual electoral support for the Far Right in Ukraine declined and fell off a cliff. There was barely a peep out of them about Ukraine when the Far Right were actually in power. In essence if Ukraine had even been on your radar a couple of years ago, you'd have gotten a very different picture that you're getting now, and from the same media.

Look, we all like a simple tale of bad guys and good guys and seek out information that backs up our position, but reality is always more complex than that and make no mistake Russia are the major dicks here and have shot themselves and their cannon fodder in the face while they were at it, but the Ukrainians have become the good guys just as much by virtue of the fact that Russia have been such major dicks. Ukraine was one of the most corrupt nations in Europe, second only to Russia and yes just like Russia was cut through with Far Right Nationalists of the nasty kind. Zelensky was no saint either. Not by a long shot, but he was better than previous and the country was shifting more towards the centre and Europe, but it had a way to go. Again Russia has shot themselves in the face here too, because the majority of Ukrainians will never look to Moscow again and if they are going to walk that long road to the EU any nazi shenanigans and corruption will have to go.

Russia by being morons means no matter how much of Ukraine they end up keeping have insured that Ukraine will end up better than Russia. And what parts they do keep they can't afford to rebuild or keep and will likely be dealing with even more insurgency for years. Facepalm isn't in it.

timmyntc · 28-06-2022 4:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262790#Comment_119262790

"just 2 more weeks"

Yurt2 · 28-06-2022 4:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262797#Comment_119262797

Your provable nonsense about coups and Banderas (which is language directly from Russian propaganda justifying this war) gives lie to your soapy "peacenik" palaver, which can be accurately translated as surrender on Russia's terms. No one believes you. You know you can't approach the thread how you want to as you'll get banned (and rightly so), so the tactic is to be a hand-wringing peaknik calling for Ukrainian surrender to maximalist Russian goals.

You have the war now, and the victims of the war have decided they will fight tooth and nail and waste as many invaders as they see fit backed by the West until they are content to sue for peace on their terms.

Russia is f*cked for a generation, and frankly I or nobody else cares how humiliated they are in the process now. And I don't weep one bit for any Russian nationalist who cheerled Putin to this point. It's time to swallow the reality of what the Russian state has become. And it means the blood of young Russian men sent to prosecute Putin's fascism.

Yurt2 · 28-06-2022 4:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262825#Comment_119262825

As a poster I respect Wibbs, I think you're a bit of a victim of 'splitting the difference' between the Russian and Ukrainian point of view on the Donbas.

That was a region that had the black hand of the Kremlin on it via Russian linked and sponsored oligarchs for decades. The corruption that infected Ukraine largely (although not exclusively) came from these Kremlin linked men and networks that got their paws on heavy industry after the collpase of the USSR.

The Azov batallion was always a sideshow. Frankly, I don't give a f*ck about a couple of hundred troops with a dodgy patch on their uniforms. They only got press becuase Russia spat the dummy when they wasted enough Russian proxies that prevented Mariupol being overran in 2014. If that's the extent of Ukraine's "Nazi problem", I, and most other people frankly don't give a sh*t.

Furze99 · 28-06-2022 4:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262712#Comment_119262712

Come across one or two (and I stress one or two) people like you in real life. They burn your ears with NATO this, NATO that and NATO the other and that the USA is the great Bogeyman so anyone opposed to the mighty evil state across the Atlantic is your hero. Happy to peddle disgusting Russian propaganda and analysis, hiding behind a narrative of what is good for Ukraine.

zv2 · 28-06-2022 4:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262825#Comment_119262825

That's more or less the picture that's been building up in my understanding. But if you want to go a little further back in history (holodomor etc) it really gets clusterfucked every step of the way. It seems the Russian hordes have been battering Ukraine forever.

Podge_irl · 28-06-2022 4:48pm

Russia was oh so concerned about the fate of the people in the Donbas region that they decided to come in and absolutely level the place with artillery?

I'm for whatever stops the casualties quickest.

That would be Russia **** off.

Wibbs · 28-06-2022 4:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262507#Comment_119262507

It is, or more it was. In some ways I would see Ukraine like the British last gasp of "empire" sailing off to the Falklands in a bolted together rag tag fleet, though at least with them the people actually living on the Falklands considered themselves British and wanted to remain so. But yeah Russia is the last European empire*. So I do find it hilarious when some Africans and others are supporting Russia for sticking it to the "West", when they are the bloody west. This is an internal "European" war and that includes America, Canada, Australia etc, with the Chinese, the Middle East etc looking on.

*Russia had room to expand, the other European empires didn't so stuck their flags into the rest of the world. China is the other long standing empire who again had room to expand. So even though they sent off huge ships of exploration before Europeans did, never bothered to set up huge empires overseas(well they tried with Japan, but that went a tad unwell...).

28-06-2022 4:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262708#Comment_119262708

You sound like an angry loon.

Put down the Internet for a few days.

electric_sleep · 28-06-2022 4:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262857#Comment_119262857

You are tilting at windmills here mate. I am not the 'person' you are imagining.

I never said USA was a bogeyman, I said that the NED was involved in nurturing a coup (demonstrable fact) I said that John Kerry was at the Maidan protests in support of ousting the then Ukrainian government (demonstrable fact). I said Russia armed rebels in the east (demonstrable fact) and probably had little green men in their ranks (my speculation but probably true). I said it was a proxy war, as well as a civil war and a war of invasion which are all true.

Denying the many factors that went into this situation is pure political illiteracy on your part. Ukraine today is a mess with many contributing elements. Russia is the aggressor, but what's wrong with looking at the big picture and looking at the political landscape in Ukraine since independence? At the varying movements within Ukraine? At the external influencers of Russia and yes, NATO and the USA?

electric_sleep · 28-06-2022 4:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262881#Comment_119262881

Regarding your first point, I never said that, in fact I said the EXACT opposite.

As for Russia F'ing off, in an ideal world, yes.

Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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