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Breaking... US Supreme Court overturns Roe v Wade

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    mostly full of old white men should be telling them what to do with their bodies.

    You're literally everything you claim to hate. This is why I suppose it's hard to define the modern ideology that you follow, because your obsession with race is up there with white nationalists, and Neo Nazis.

    Your position isn't even consistent either. On one hand you're blaming Christianity, on the other hand white men. They are either motivated by race or religion, you can't have it both ways. If they are motivated by race, then it's very odd to see a black man along side them, very odd indeed.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Odd it's never mentioned the original case was judged by the same demographic. Well looking at the wiki pictures.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    That, and the fact that RBG, someone who was literally a figure of worship for many of them, didn't agree with the initial ruling. She thought that it was legally weak, and she certainly wasn't a hardcore Christian or a "white man".

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    Thats how democracy works. Point is the public who voted Trump, didn't vote to over turn roe v Wade, as suggested. Also it happened under Biden. So its a nonsense angle.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,146 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    What are you talking about? Can old white men not also be Christian suddenly? How is this possibly confusing for you?

    You literally quoted me where I said 'mostly full of old white men' so I am clearly aware that they aren't all white men so what is your point with your last line?

    The vast majority of GOP presidents who selected the judges in this situation, the senators who confirmed them, and the Supreme Court Judges themselves are old, white, Christian, and rich (I forgot rich in my earlier post).

    I don't follow an ideology, I treat each situation as it comes - what I see is wrong I say it. I don't fit in a nice box for you, as I'd be right of centre in Irish terms



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,146 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    RBG is one of the reasons for this situation. She should have retired when Obama had the power to get a nomination through



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,146 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    You clearly do not understand how the US system works. Biden had zero power to do anything to stop this happening (whether he would if he could is a different discussion)



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,575 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Truth. Old people are selfish and refuse to let go. Everything RBG fought for is at risk. At least Breyer retired in advance. And Gorsuch being on the court is a sham, along with the handmaid.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,010 ✭✭✭Christy42


    It is being brought up in the house of commons now so many will try and bring this stuff across the water. That is England for the moment but I am sure some will try and make it an issue here again. We do have stronger protections in that we went about it with a legally binding referendum but these rulings will have an effect on Ireland.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,059 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    You're missing the point. I didn't say pregnancy and vaccine mandates were similar, the constant in these two situations is bodily autonomy.

    I also never said that you supported vaccine mandates (in fact your name didn't come up hard as that might be for you to believe), I was speaking about people who did support vaccine mandates and then speak about the sanctity of bodily autonomy in relation to abortion.

    You say there's no moral or logical flexibility by you on this, OK, again this isn't about you, but did you ever consider that your opinion might be the subject of criticism?

    Personally I felt people should have the right to get vaccinated or not based on their own judgment, I got vaccinated but I didn't like the rhetoric some people were pushing, and it was particularly prevalent in the Irish media to force people into getting vaccinated.

    On the topic of abortion, I feel abortion is a necessity in some situations and not in others, I'm not hard line on either end of the topic but I can't help but see the glaringly obvious moral quandary SOME people SHOULD find themselves in with regard to the issue of bodily autonomy.

    Any of the typically left leaning posters here have jumped on me for saying this, no surprises there, none of you seem to be able to see anything from any perspective but your own.

    Glazers Out!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,969 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Well, actually they did. They may not have realised it at the time, but when the public voted for Trump, they were voting for someone who would use every opportunity to change the Supreme Court so that it would have an impact in the longer-term. It had happened in the past with other Presidents. The liberal turkeys who voted for Trump got their heads chopped off in a later Christmas.

    Equally, when people voted for Fine Gael over the last decade, they knew or should have know they were voting for a party which would bring referenda on same-sex marriage and divorce, in line with what they did in the 1980s to reform Ireland. That is the same thing, but in a positive way rathe than the negative Trump way.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,859 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Garret Fitzgerald reformed Ireland in the 1980s by ushering in the 8th Amendment.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    It's almost as if Vaccine passports and alike for moving around or traveling did not exist.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    Thats literally my point. The majority voted for Biden. Biden is pro choice. Therefore just because people voted trump previously doesn't mean the people want roe v Wade overturned as was suggested, (then or now).

    Well, actually they did. They may not have realised it at the time

    True. Trump didn't win on overturning roe v Wade. Him stacking the supreme court was the result we see.

    The suggestion was people voted for this because they voted for Trump. I would say it was a consequence, as Trump wasn't a one issue candidate.

    You are wrong to bring FG in for an attempted party positive PSA. Nobody knew the then anti gay rights minister would later become the gay, pro gay rights Taoiseach. Also FG lied to the public by engaging in cronyism, looking after their own and settling up a quango. Nobody voted for worse crises and crony appointments.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,146 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Ah come on now - you're admitting that you were highlighting 'the constant' between the two situations yet claiming this doesn't mean they were 'similar'....

    How many of the people who supported vaccine mandates were calling for imprisonment of those who didn't follow them? I fully agree that this tiny population are being hypocritical if they now complain about imprisonment for abortion.

    Are you accepting that anyone who complained and resisted vaccine mandates are also hypocrites if are now fine (or celebrating) a change that will mean women being imprisoned due to choice of what they do with their bodies?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,146 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Did those mandates involve forcing people to get the vaccine or go to prison?

    It's almost like you have completely forgotten the never ending tears from the right that those very mild mandates caused



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Mic 1972


    I stopped reading at "why banning abortion?".

    The overturning of Roe v Wade did not ban abortion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Mic 1972


    As previously stated, Joe v Wade overturn did not ban abortion. It is up to each state to implement abortion laws from now on.

    Americans can travel to other states to get an abortion, the US still have legal abortion. It's the same as in Europe



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,575 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Until a federal ban is in place.

    It's Roe, not Joe.

    And, you've (again) missed the point; Roe V. Wade didn't institute abortion in the US. It prevented states from banning it outright. Now, that protection is removed so the next step is... take a guess.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,146 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    You're at best being incredibly naive here. There was dozens of States with old laws or trigger laws that meant that their decision to overturn settled law meant that abortion was banned.

    For the rest they are sending the decision to the states where they have ruled that they are okay with incredible levels of gerrymandering which means bans can be imposed against the will of a majority in the state.

    That isn't getting into the likely push for a federal ban that has already picked up momentum (along with ending of same sex marriage, gay relationships, contraception etc)



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,017 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    For anyone interested in reading the plain text and/or listening to it in audiobook firmat this is worth a look

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Mic 1972


    The next step is unknown, for now abortion in the US is legal. So far you are projecting.

    There are European countries were abortion is currently illegal. I haven't seen anyone complaining about that, but somehow everyone is hands in the air for the one poor underprivileged woman in the state of Arkansas who needs an abortion right now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,575 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    It's not projecting when the obvious legal direction being taken by the GQP is an overall ban. Yes, it hasn't happened it. The important thing is, now, it can.



  • Registered Users Posts: 83,352 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    I haven't seen anyone complaining about that, but somehow everyone is hands in the air for the one poor underprivileged woman in the state of Arkansas who needs an abortion right now.

    Yeah, only one **** womb in the whole state that might have been raped or need an emergency procedure right?

    In 2020 there were 3,154 abortions performed in Arkansas.

    https://www.healthy.arkansas.gov/images/uploads/pdf/induced_abortions_final_2020.pdf

    I really cannot understand why anyone would make such a huge dick of a statement.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Mic 1972


    How many times have you defended pregnant women in Poland who couldn't get an abortion and still can't? zero

    And you dont care about the 13 yo pregnant child in Arkansas either, other than helping you win an argument online.

    That's how much the left cares about the poor and the underprivileged



  • Registered Users Posts: 83,352 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    I have no idea what you are on about: last I checked, Poland was not within the jurisdiction of the US Supreme Court. Arkansas is. As are 49 other states and other territories I have a passport for, but no not Poland.

    The efforts to deflect are mesmerizing. Did you want to start a thread about Polish abortion rights or was that just a complete whinge?



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,059 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    I'm admitting what? The central point of what I was saying?

    The fact is that the number of people calling for forced vaccination wasn't a tiny by any means and they tended to be left leaning and by extension pro choice by default.

    Our own main stream media vilified anyone who didn't take a vaccine, the reasons cited were typically that those people were far right conspiracy nut jobs who didn't deserve to be respected. It's notable that this rhetoric reached a crescendo right before the severity of covid began to wane at the beginning of this year.

    Ireland is an extremely "progressive" country nowadays and that backdrop meant that even the more extreme ideas about vaccine mandates spouted on our airwaves and in our print media were largely unchallenged. Maybe that's why you recall that situation differently?

    There are a significant number of people who want an a la carte approach to bodily autonomy and the contrast between their views on the same when seen through the lenses of covid and abortion are indicative of hypocrisy.

    Glazers Out!



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    They were condemned by the EU parliament for the regressive policy and it was definitely discussed on here.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 95 ✭✭GalwayMark


    It's a symptom where the views of Senators from low populated states like Nebraska, Idaho, Wyoming, Oklahoma,etc. are allowed to have the same weight in the senate as those who live in the major 'liberal' cities and coastal which are home to the majority of Americans, therefore allowing them to completely distort political debate which allows people with brains completely sieved to get elected. Ultimately rural states at a future constitutional convention will need to have their political power curtailed and they will have no one but themselves to blame after electing representatives with disgusting views on how America should look as a country.



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