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The Pushback against Leftism

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    I'm not. My point was that it's literally in the title of the economic engine that drives globalism, yet somehow it's being considered right wing by said poster. The European Union is also very Neo-Liberal, which is largely supported by nearly everyone on the left, yet people like yourself will try and convince us that a large amount of the left, support an economically right wing union? Your conception of the right, just like every poster before you, is business people exploiting people and making money for themselves. That has literally nothing to do with the right, and it applies a tiny fraction of the whole West. They aren't even a minority of the right, they simply are not right wing in any shape or form. You're supposed isolation from power, is totally based on mislabeling crony capitalists as right wingers.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Registered Users Posts: 19,233 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Neo-Liberalism is a right wing, conservative, set of ideals. As Naomi Klein puts it it's about "privatization of the public sphere, deregulation of the corporate sector, and the lowering of income and corporate taxes, paid for with cuts to public spending". None of that is in line with Left wing belief.

    You can try and equate it with the Left all you want, but you'll fail every time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,085 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    Perhaps the diffences is in attitudes to illegal immigration but i would think that no capitalist thinker would be against cheap labour. Cheap labours means more profits to them. Thats why the brexit idea of leaving without sorting out their immigration policy causing labour shortages and increasing costs seems very un-rightwing if right wing is capitalism.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,857 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Big business are very lucky that they have an army of dopey politically correct people to accuse anyone who objects to their exploitation of cheap labour of being a racist.

    I wonder if an old-time labour protectionist like James Connolly were somehow still around would he overcome it rhetorically or succumb to a thousand accusations of racism and run for cover and apologise? An interesting thought experiment.

    The Neoliberal-New Left synthesis is an awful thing.

    Onwards and downwards!



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,233 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    The Neoliberal-New Left synthesis is an awful thing.

    Once again...the Left are to blame...somehow.

    🤣


    If you guys can't be honest about what Neo-Liberalism is, then there's not much point in engaging.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,085 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    The left may defend it but the idea is being pushed by right wing corporations too. It is no different to the Italians and Irish landing in New York in the 19th century undercutting local labour. No one would say that America in the 19th century was being lead by left wing ideas.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,857 ✭✭✭growleaves


    - You say that LGBTQ theatre is a distraction from important economic matters yet leftists will still insist on making bizarre trans demands a priority (Why do other people's children's need to be at drag shows?? Why is that important?)

    - You say neoliberalism involves lowering of wages (true) yet who supplies 'anti-racist' mobs to run cover for corporations and their exploitation of cheap labour?

    - As mentioned by another poster above the EU is a kind of neoliberal machine. Who accuses Leavers of being insane and makes EU membership a litmus test? Leftists like yourself.

    It if looks like a Neoliberal-New Left synthesis and quacks like one it is one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,233 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    But you have a very narrow definition of what constitutes the left.

    You see it as some old fashioned 1920s vision of helping the working class.

    The left has moved on from that.

    Now it means the kind of thing we're discussing in this thread, however unpalatable you seem to find it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,966 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Our nearest neighbour has been conservative for 20years and has been drifting towards a progressively more extreme form of conservatism. Its the case that politics across Europe has drifted more rightwards over the last two decades. The reason why it may not appear so is because all political parties apply some form of Neo-Liberal economics which makes them appear superficially similar and even moderate - but that is an illusion and the UK is the poster boy for extremist right wing politics.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,938 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Laws shouldn't be made based on extremes or how they could be abused. A man putting on a dress and going into a womens changing room would not suffice, they would have to have their gender changed officially. Doubt anyone would go through that trouble just to go into a changing room. Even if they did that doesn't mean others should be punished because someone else abuses a law. A trans man with a beard would have to use the womens changing room according to your solution. The law changed in 2015, the things you are suggesting have not happened.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,233 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119263159#Comment_119263159 There was an error displaying this embed.

    I made the mistake of replying to you a few days ago and you went crying.

    It won't be happening again...

    ...and you of all people don't get to define what the Left is.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Paul on


  • Registered Users Posts: 414 ✭✭dorothylives


    No it isn't. You'd like people to believe that it is but it isn't. The culture and traditions changed dramatically with uncontrolled inward migration that started to be encouraged under the Blair government. Communities changed for the worse. People like you don't want to accept white flight and why it happens. You don't want to see that people who lived in an estate for decades suddenly found themselves in a minority as in towns in the North like Bradford and Leeds etc, the locals were replaced by migrants from Pakistan who then brought in close blood relatives who didn't and still don't speak English, to marry Pakistani Muslim men.

    You only have to take a look at knife crime and the surge in violent crime in more ethnically diverse parts of London and other cities to see why people voted for Brexit. That's before we even get to the many many many dinghy's full of Africa, Pakistani, Indian and take your pick of nationalities arriving on the British coast and by Coast guard boat from France every single week. Italy will go the same way as will others over the years. But nah, it's all just racist conservatives, just don't talk about all of the ethnic minorities who voted for Brexit too. Whether you agree with Brexit or not it's done, they've left get over it.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    They'll rant and tell you "it's not the left that you like we're talking about, it's the left that I can't stand we're talking about", or they'll just make up shite and complain to you for supporting it even if you never said it. Mind you, it's not like any of them are likely to get up off their sofas and try to make a useful difference to society.

    And meanwhile, while these sofa-bound heroes of the right resistance are yelling "no, boooooo, look over there", public services get more and more ****, taxes go up while wages are frozen, the cost of living spirals out of control, and the oligarchs and billionaires get richer and more powerful.

    It's a circus, and the useful idiots are top of the bill.

    (and don't get me started on the left-wing nutters, sheesh)



  • Registered Users Posts: 414 ✭✭dorothylives


    Not a chance of that happening. If you have that kind of situation, as happened in a Marks and Spencers store. A staff member wouldn't allow a man who identified as trans to use the ladies changing room. Management ended up apologising. They shouldn't have. A person with a penis should not be using changing facilities for people with vaginas. It's really that simple and just like the way that trans men are being banned from competing in female sports we will see an end to this nonsense of women and girls being expected to share changing facilities with men and not before time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,938 ✭✭✭20Cent




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,966 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Which doesn't address anything i said. the UK now has a set of policies which are very similar to what Hitler enacted on his rise to power. The UK Tory party aligned itself with the far right faction of the European Parliament before it left the EU (the block that has Victor Orbans party in it).

    Its an objective fact that the UK Tory party is on the extreme right of conservatism and can no longer be considered a centrist conservative party.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,085 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    The left in the past would be communists, no? They believed in nationalizing industrys, supporting unions and such. I mean Corbyn was like that and he is only just gone so they dont seemed ro have changed that much. The left is wrong in spending so mich time on trans issues, racial issues and illegal immigration instead of supporting workers right. Saying that the right in America has regressed too into a non science believing, religious dominated, universal health care denying entity that also doesnt care about worker rights.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,233 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    And a few minutes after you posted that, this genius gem was issued forth...

    I think everyone knows what The Left is these days.

    Its the cohort of liberals who, 15 years ago, jumped on a runaway train of progressivism until recent times, when the wheels have started to come off.

    Confusing the traditional Left with todays Left is disingenuous deflecting tactics. They are a disgruntled maladapted bunch of unpleasant characters who contribute nothing to cultural life, except their efforts to tear it down.


    It's not that left, but this left, no not that one, the other one, no the other other one...

    🤣



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,966 ✭✭✭Shoog


    The reason left wing people support trans rights is because it is a foundational principle to respect all individuals equally. The only thing intollerable to most left wing people is hate for people who are different. Onc e you understand this you understand the fundamental difference between left wind and right wing people.

    The reason I intensely dislike most right wind supporters is that they have an intense dislike of people different from themselves.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Mic 1972


    You literally just contradicted yourself with the last sentence.

    ironically, you perfectly described the hypocrisy of the left



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,966 ✭✭✭Shoog


    There is nothing contradictory in expressing dislike of bigots. If conservatives were not so hating of people of difference - we could talk about actual policy differences in a civil manor.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Mic 1972


    And once again you just gave a perfect example of the left's inability to debate. Calling bigots anyone with a different opinion that yours. Seriously



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,966 ✭✭✭Shoog


    I call it as I see it. When I see people attacking trans people then they are bigots in my book.



  • Registered Users Posts: 408 ✭✭Starfire20


    the right complaining that "the left" call them out on their bigotry and wont simply tolerate it as a difference of opinion.

    oh noes



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Mic 1972


    so, one rule for you and one rule for others

    more like, the left calling bigots those who have a different opinion



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,966 ✭✭✭Shoog


    I don't give a fig what your opinions are just so long as they don't involve hating trans people.



  • Registered Users Posts: 408 ✭✭Starfire20




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,496 ✭✭✭Luxembourgo


    The most abusive people I see online are left wing people towards people with a different opinion to them be it for religious reasons or otherwise.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,966 ✭✭✭Shoog


    You must frequent some very genteel corners of the internet. Good for you.



This discussion has been closed.
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