The twelfth is upon us again

Because The Empire is gone, it'd be political suicide to be the Prime Minister and government who ruled over the breakup of the Union.

The brits don't want NI, right people thinking in the south don't want NI (despite knowing the lyrics to the Wolfe Tones songs).

Place is a grim dive left behind in the dark days because of the past attrocious actions of both sides.

No solution except a very big Concrete Saw and a moat.

Kip.

Agree with you, NI is not a kip. Belfast, Armagh and Eniskillen are fine places and a lot cheaper. Have family all over the North and a lot of people making these snide remarks probably never been there before.

I think when one goes, it is only a matter of time before the other does. I think Scotland will leave first so I'm not sure the SNP will have the opportunity to be emboldened by an NI border poll. Hopefully we use it as a learning opportunity here in Ireland.

Whichever does happen first, the symbolic impact on a National level of being the Prime Minister/ Government that presided over the breakup of the Union will likely be a bigger concern to those people than the international embarrassment; if Brexit has shown us anything it is that international embarrassment isn't a major concern.

That lad would likely be in more danger in an average pub in Cork than in the roughest Loyalist spots of East Belfast haha

I agree with your assessment of Scotland Vs NI as practical issues for the UK, but I think you underestimate the symbolic value of being seen to break up the Union (even among those who with Brexit have shown how little they give a sh*te about other parts of the UK). I don't think the, 'righter of wrongs/international peacemaker' thing will stick with your average Daily Express reader, but still think Scotland will go first, so I don't think we'll ever get to test my hypothesis.

Only bother you'll have in Cork with a thick Ulster accent is getting the buggers to understand you (and it'll be mutual). I've never lost my accent, spent a lot of time in Cork and never had more than playful teasing.

Perhaps someone who is vocally staunchly Unionist would get a bit of bother, but I've found most of Cork views the world in three parts; Cork (vastly superior to everywhere else, the Peoples Republic etc etc), Dublin (must be what they were writing about when they described Hell in the bible) and everywhere else (ah you're not Cork, but at least you're not Dubs).

Fire? Months?

I am all for people having a celebration fo their identity, but any fire that needed months of preparation would see me out against it, whatever the "celebration".

Why not organise day trips to Ukraine if fires are your thing?

Hindu funeral pyres are cultural, religeous and banned in Britain, so why discriminate against some British people on the grounds of race and religion, yet not others?

I have never had the pleasure of attending one of these, but months? That's crazy, a big fire is the same as a small fire but is less polluting and does less damage.

A hatefest, pure and simple. Over 1,000 marches take place across the North over 4 months, that's not a celebration that's intimidation/ a show of strength. It's not like the marches are anything like a celebration or anything else worth watching. Same boring costumes, same rubbish 'music' same marching in a straight line. A snoozefest, then off to their ghettos to burn symbols of the enemy like medieval savages on bonfires, the scale of which are not permitted anywhere else in the world. The BBC ended their coverage of it which is very positive, showing it on TV was only encouraging them.

It's more harmful for their own community than anyone else, kids who should be kids are encouraged to be full time bonfire builders and night watchmen, no emphasis on education, sport, hobbies. And when it is featured on international media their community is shown to be belligerent, arrogant, unthinking and spiteful.

"It seems to be only the unionist commemorations that come under that scrutiny"

Whatever about the rest of your post, this statement is complete rubbish. Look at the fake controversy in the corporate FF/FG/Labour media engineered whenever anyone who so much as makes the tea at an SF district cumann meeting is seen within light years of an IRA commemoration, complete with a new thread on here and the usual howls of fake outrage from the West Brit Cruiserite fraternity.

As for the unionists. I'll respect their traditions if they respect mine, I've no issue with them commemorating their culture. But realistically, it's a dying one or at least in decline.

One could ask the same question about someone working in a hotel in Southampton care enough to continue paying increased tax to keep Scotland (or more financially significantly, NI) in the Union......or perhaps more relevant, were they happy to pay higher taxes in France and Germany to help Ireland grow as part of the EU.

I'd expect it depends on how it is positioned; if it's presented as a cost in perpetuity, then even I wouldn't be on board. If it is positioned as an investment to bring NI up to a high enough standard so they can actually be a net contributer akin to how Ireland developed and grew as part of the EU, I think you'd get a much more positive response.

I think you're right though, these topics do tend to always fall back to a discussion around Unification and I'm doing no favours with keeping on topic.

I understand the Scottish Calvinist Planter history of Ulster Unionism quite well, as it forms a substantial part of my own family history. I've mentioned before that I come from a mixed background and my own surname appears on the Ulster Covenant as signed by an ancestor of mine.

Despite understanding this, I still find it strange! It's the willful stubbornness of it; while I can historically contextualise, it is hard to see how it has continued to last with no sign of change in the post-GFA world. I can't think of a place anywhere else in the world where in a time of peace, someone could live ten miles from an open border and just stubbornly pretend it doesn't exist. Almost impressive in it's own way! It does tie into the topic too, as I'd find Orangeism similarly confusingly anachronistic.

We may have crossed paths unwittingly if that was in Letterkenny in 2012.

Not from the north and never been at a 12th july festival. Do any non caucasian people go to these bonfires or match in the OO?