Off Topic Thread 5.0

Dubinusa · 27-06-2022 4:06pm

Off course abortion is a medical procedure. I just don't think it's a right like the others I did mention.

It's obvious I differ than most on here. I respect your opinions, but I do differ. Perhaps I see things differently. Maybe I am wrong and don't understand where you lads are coming from. I'm not being an objectionist. It's just my opinion.

27-06-2022 4:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119257814#Comment_119257814

You're obviously free to your own opinions and views, but virtually every major international body considers access to abortion a basic human right.

The right to bodily autonomy is a basic human right, and therefore the right to access an abortion is a logical extension of that.

Let me put it another way; if you don't believe it is a right, do you believe it is appropriate that accessing the service should be restricted?

b.gud · 27-06-2022 4:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119257814#Comment_119257814

I hope I'm not putting words in your mouth here based on reading your posts I think you actually feel the same way as most posters do, ie that they should be available to those that need/want them. I think where you differ from others is what a "right" is in this context.

For instance what you say in this post here I would describe as meaning it is a right but you seem to think that doesn't constitute a right. Honestly I don't know which of us id correct and honestly I'm not sure it matters because I think we agree on the much much more important issue

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119254753#Comment_119254753

Dubinusa · 27-06-2022 7:45pm

Yea those that need them should have access.

On another topic, I support the idea of ending your life if you are suffering. Morally, it's probably not right! But why allow unwanted or unnecessary suffering. A lot on here would likely disagree with me. Controversially enough, I believe this should be a person's right.

I hope this opinion isn't too extreme or upsets anyone.

swiwi_ · 27-06-2022 9:04pm

I think I’d prefer gridiron discussion tbh. Where is IBF when you need him?

pickarooney · 28-06-2022 2:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119258808#Comment_119258808

You support euthanasia for good reason, therefore it is morally right (to you). Morals aren't laws, they're individual codes of ethics.

Someone who disagrees with you may consider the same thing immoral but that is of no consequence for your morality.

Tbh, I'm realising that your interpretation of the word 'right' is perfectly valid (in context) but that everyone else you're (not really) arguing with is using a different interpretation.

Just off the top of my head, in American films 'you have the right to an attorney' doesn't come with the caveat 'if you can afford one' but rather the addendum that if you can't afford one, one will be provided for you. Which I guess lines up more or less with what you're saying about abortion and the right to have one either by paying for it or, if you can't afford it, on the state's dime.

Another example, primary and secondary education are a right in as much as the state is obliged to provide it to every citizen and those who can afford it can choose to avail of private education. Third level education is only a right in that anyone can obtain it on the proviso that they can afford it. Grants, scholarships etc. exist for poor/talented students but they are limited.

I'm not sure where healthcare in general stands. Theoretically in Ireland everyone is entitled to healthcare in as far as those who can afford quality, timely healthcare can avail of it for a fee and those who cannot must wait for a poorer overall quality of service, often to the point where, realistically, that care is simply not available.

Dubinusa · 28-06-2022 5:41pm

To be fair, I probably have varying morals. Your other points are true and I have never looked at things like that. The right to an attorney etc. Hmmmm, lots of food for thought.

Neil3030 · 28-06-2022 8:40pm

As fair as I'm concerned, it really doesn't matter what any individual thinks about abortion. It's a spectrum. Some will support unrestricted access for whatever reason, at any point in the pregnancy. Others will want the unborn to have a right to life from the moment of inception, regardless of circumstance. The rest of us fall somewhere in the middle, with varying opinions on appropriate circumstances, pregnancy duration, health risks and all the rest of it. It's incredibly complex. And the more we get bogged down in a legal/scientific debate, the more we miss the point of what's really going on.

As with most incredibly complex ideas, the most efficient way for a nation state to arrive at the appropriate policy is to let the public decide. Let every opinion be respect, let people debate and try exert influence, but ultimately, like it or not, let the majority opinion rule. Some local regions (e.g. individual US states) will have different micro-majority views, but the nation state as a whole makes the aggregate decision. You either trust that process or you don't subscribe to democracy. You either abide by the nation state's opinion or you can leave it (and forfeit your right to free trade, federal funds, defense, and the rest of it).

The situation in America was that 70% of the public (comprised of 87% Democrat and 50% Republicans) did NOT want Roe overturned (source). A minority of right wing Christians, through political engineering and an insane amount of luck (Trump appointing three justices), forced through this legislative decision against the will of the people. Find me a better definition of fascism enacted in a first world country in our lifetime.

Most of us on these boards are lads. Most of us don't think about abortion that much, or have a very vague understanding of its importance to women. You're not a bad person if you've never thought about it. But every single one of us* should be very concerned right now, regardless of your views on women's rights. When these fascists are done with women, they will eventually move onto something that will more directly impact men. Contraception, premarital sex, sexual freedom, pluralism and scientific inquiry. They hate all of these things, and Roe is just their matinee.

(*well, those of us in the US, i guess!)

28-06-2022 8:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119253086#Comment_119253086

Saw it in person. Was class. I wouldn't be the biggest Beatles fan but was unexpectedly moved to tears by Let It Be. Being three days on the sesh might have had something to do with it.

pickarooney · 28-06-2022 9:50pm

Does anyone use a 5G connection either casually or as their main internet source?

What kind of speeds can you get?

hold my beer · 28-06-2022 10:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119264176#Comment_119264176

It has started appearing a bit on my phone, and you wouldn't notice any speed differences over 4G. Well I didn't anyway, but I wouldn't have been up to much.

stephen_n · 28-06-2022 10:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119264176#Comment_119264176

Do you mean using it for tethering? Instead of getting broadband.

That’s what I get on 5g sitting at home.

RichieRich_89 · 28-06-2022 11:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119263849#Comment_119263849

Your second paragraph doesn't really make sense. The original 1973 Roe decision took the power to decide out of the hands of the people. You can't be in favour of the Court being the ones making the decision back then but not now. Well, maybe if you're a hypocrite or biased you can.

The US isn't a pure democracy. It's a Republic. The founding fathers instituted the Supreme Court as a check on the excesses of majoritarian rule. They had concerns the majority would enact laws that would infringe the rights of a minority.

b.gud · 29-06-2022 9:27am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119243027#Comment_119243027

Yeah I finally caught up with it last night, really not as shocking as I was expecting, still a good episode though

errlloyd · 29-06-2022 3:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119264599#Comment_119264599

The whole point of rights is that the power to decide is out of the hands of the people.

You can't decide to ban a religion in the United States - it is protected under article 1 of the BoR

You can't decide to ban guns in the United States - it is protected under article 2 of the BoR

You can't decide to put your soldiers in someone's house during peace time without the consent of the owner - it is protected under article 3 of the BoR

Now to be fair, maybe Supreme Courts shouldn't be able to create unenumerated rights. The Irish SC can and has, and that's what SCOTUS did in 1973. But if an SC is restricted to what is called "literal interpretation" over "broad" or "historical" interpretation, you make constitutions awfully unwieldy. And because changing the US constitution is virtually impossible you'd paralyze the country.

Patsy167 · 30-06-2022 11:11am

Am I the only one that thinks Alan Quinlan is stealing a career as a pundit? He doesn't seem to have much passion for it and never provides any real insight. He just fills up time and waffles on. No way would he be in there if he wasn't an ex-player.

kuang1 · 30-06-2022 11:21am

Hard to disagree with that.

Part of me kind of thinks "fair play to him if he can get away with it".

And the other part of me thinks he's bland, uninsightful, and even depressing at times and I will actively change channel to avoid listening to him.

30-06-2022 1:45pm

Every time Leinster hammer Munster I listen to Quinlan's post match reaction and touch myself.

Dubinusa · 30-06-2022 2:33pm

Quinlan is poor. But I think most of the pundits are poor.

Podge_irl · 30-06-2022 2:40pm

I'm not sure they have any incentive to be better because they are given gigs by virtue of who they are.

OldRio · 30-06-2022 2:42pm

Listening to Warburton during the six nations was like a breath of fresh air. Insightful clever and didn't hold back.

I'm struggling to remember a decent Irish pundit who was an ex player. Bod can be good, but not as a commentator.

pickarooney · 30-06-2022 2:48pm

RoG is grand and Murray Kinsella is technically an ex player

Dubinusa · 30-06-2022 2:58pm

Trimble and Cave are both good. Jackman is awful! Lenihan not much better and B.O.D is meh.

RichieRich_89 · 30-06-2022 3:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119271768#Comment_119271768

Warburton clever? He doesn't come across as that to me. He doesn't even understand the forward pass rule.

Dave_The_Sheep · 30-06-2022 4:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119271768#Comment_119271768

Trimble, ROG, Horgan off the top of my head. BOD is fine, nothing spectacular, but I think he rubs some people the wrong way due to who he is.

Warburton has the occasional good take, but overall I find him very poor, and dull besides. Especially around the topic of high tackles and red cards, he's got some moronic takes there, can't imaginge why. He's better than Guscott, Wilkinson, Davies, etc. but that's not a high bar to clear.

aloooof · 30-06-2022 5:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119272261#Comment_119272261

I can't warm to Horgan for some reason, but think Trimble is excellent. ROG is an obvious one and Jerry Flannery as well, could listen to him talk about rugby all day.

I actively avoid anything Quinlan is on…

stephen_n · 30-06-2022 5:17pm

Face facts, we get the pundits that work for TV and radio. The casual fans, with a passing interest in the game. Why do we always have one pundit from each province for URC games. Not for insight, that’s for fans to connect with. Most casual fans don’t know the pundits are talking out of their ass. Sure even on here you will get people saying Franno is insightful and knowledgeable of the game. Lowest common denominator basically.