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The Pushback against Leftism

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    #872
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,642 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119265011#Comment_119265011

    Perhaps you could present some instead of just dropping the word woke here as a pejorative. You've given no reason why Christian fascists are a better source.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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    #873
    WealthyB
    Registered Users Posts: 436 ✭✭WealthyB


    The problem, as I see it, with "The left" today is that they have allowed themselves to become defined as adopting the opposing stance on any specific issue to "the right". Unfortunately this has made the left very easy to manipulate - a good example being it was left wing parties that pushed for the strongest and the most draconian lockdown laws - and to this day the left ignores how lockdowns saw huge transfers of wealth from poor to rich, and how lockdowns disproportionatly affected those on lower incomes. The left doesn't care about this though, because to do so would be seen as giving ground to those far right anti vaxxers mob.

    To see an old school Red like Jeremy Corbyn aligned with Nigel Farage in their opposition to vaccine passports told me the younger comrades have a lot of maturing to do. Its OK to agree with someone on the other end of the political spectrum on a single issue, but today's young left don't see that. Hence the depressing polarisation we see today.



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    #874
    Sudden Valley
    Registered Users Posts: 4,085 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119266482#Comment_119266482

    I think the antivaxxers were both Left and Right although their position may have been championed by media like Fox News and GB News. I wouldnt just blame it all on the young left and praise the old generations as being more co-operative. Look how childish the relationship was between Trump, McConnell and Pelosi was and none of them was young.



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    #875
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,938 ✭✭✭20Cent


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119266482#Comment_119266482

    Leadership during the lockdowns was all right wing, US, Britain and Ireland. But they were the "lefts" fault.

    Besides the fact of how many lives they saved.



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    #876
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 19,233 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119266482#Comment_119266482

    The Left didn't get any real say in lockdown procedure. They weren't in power to do so.

    Once again, the bogeyman "lEfT" is to blame for decisions they never made.



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    #877
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 40,010 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119266482#Comment_119266482

    a good example being it was left wing parties that pushed for the strongest and the most draconian lockdown laws

    Fúcking Chinese, bunch of of cuckhold libtards!



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    #878
    TomTomTim
    Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119266600#Comment_119266600

    Your definition of the left seems to conveniently only contain Marxists, so if someone is blaming anything on the left, and said left in question aren't hardcore socialists or communists, you dismiss it. The left is a spectrum, and Marxists are on that spectrum, but they are not the whole. Lets leave economics out of it then in the name getting somewhere. Do you agree that there's a social "left", which I usually call progressives, who are pretty united in their beliefs? They usually support: LBGT issues, feminism, Palestine, the welfare state, abortion, multiculturalism, racial issues, climate change policies. As this is the group people talk about when they speak of the modern "left". Like I said already, I rarely use the term, because most people on that side aren't very liberal.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




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    #879
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119266600#Comment_119266600

    Most of the problems identified or associated with the Left are sociocultural matters rather than economic matters.



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    #880
    growleaves
    Registered Users Posts: 7,857 ✭✭✭growleaves


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119266653#Comment_119266653

    Chinese Communist Party

    Communist = left-wing



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    #881
    TomTomTim
    Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119266694#Comment_119266694

    Exactly. Like I said, Tony is very conveniently only focusing on economics in the name of dismissing all claims against the "left"

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




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    #882
    growleaves
    Registered Users Posts: 7,857 ✭✭✭growleaves


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119266671#Comment_119266671

    I wonder does he oppose immigration on the grounds of labour protectionism like James Connolly and other Marxists?

    He won't acknowledge that contemporary leftist multiculturalism and 'anti-racism' dovetails neatly with neoliberalism.



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    #883
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119266716#Comment_119266716

    The more that the Left is referred to as its old form and issues like "housing" (as if issues like housing provision is an exclusively left-wing matter!), the more that Tony misses the point.

    As you say, what we're talking about here is how the modern Left is encroaching on how we live our lives - and that raises questions for their unwavering support for mass immigration, freedom of speech / expression, gender identity theory, this obsession with referring to people with an -ism or -phobia- for the crime of ventilating a perfectly respectable opinion; and all the rest.

    When people talk of a pushback against the Left, it's invariably about these issues and has nothing whatsoever to do with socialist economics, which isn't even implemented across any Western European country anyway.

    Left-wing economic ideas are routinely smashed to pieces at General Elections. Just look at what happened Jeremy Corbyn, to name the most recent prominent example.



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    #884
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 19,233 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119266671#Comment_119266671

    Pffft...

    Yesterday you tried to tell everyone that Neo-Liberalism was left wing.

    The Left...anything you want it to be. 🙄



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    #885
    TomTomTim
    Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119266727#Comment_119266727

    I said it yesterday, but I know traditionalists who are essentially white nationalists, who support Marxist economic polices. I wonder does Tony consider them on his version of the "left". I think we'd all be better off if we just separated social and economic positions on the political spectrum all together, as this thread is a great example of how confusing things can get when both are merged.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




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    #886
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 40,010 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119266700#Comment_119266700

    LOL.

    They are about as left as my right testicle.



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    #887
    growleaves
    Registered Users Posts: 7,857 ✭✭✭growleaves


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119266768#Comment_119266768

    Yes then you have Aontu who are.. Christian socialists?

    But Tony EH won't define his terms or give out any clues so who knows what he thinks about any of this stuff, he won't tell us.



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    #888
    growleaves
    Registered Users Posts: 7,857 ✭✭✭growleaves


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119266788#Comment_119266788

    You're confused and probably don't anything about China.

    They retain elements of Marxism-Leninism.

    As for things like Han nationalism, it wouldn't seem out of place to a 1920s left-winger.

    It is "right-wing" to you because you're a child of New Left politics (with its genesis in the 1960s) and political liberalism.



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    #889
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 40,010 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119266820#Comment_119266820

    I know know you don't believe in evolution biological, social or political.

    But left and right as has been prescribed by the honourable members of this thread, The Chinese Communist Party ain't left wing.



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    #890
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 19,233 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119266800#Comment_119266800

    LOL

    The Left is a broad church of varying degrees as is the Right.

    But you and the other fella tried to make out that Neo-Liberalism was left wing yesterday. Neo-Liberalism...a set of beliefs that's about the "privatization of the public sphere, deregulation of the corporate sector, and the lowering of income and corporate taxes, paid for with cuts to public spending" is somehow left wing doctrine now.

    If you cannot be honest about what Neo-Liberalism is, what's the point in even engaging with you or TomTomTim on any level?

    "Left" is just a catch all word for you to illustrate things you don't like.



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    #891
    Sudden Valley
    Registered Users Posts: 4,085 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119266863#Comment_119266863

    The chinese policies on gays, transgenders and abortions would cheer the heart of an evangelical Republican. They are socially not New Left



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    #892
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 19,233 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119266914#Comment_119266914

    Whatever China is these days, it certainly isn't Left wing.



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    #893
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119266893#Comment_119266893

    Left is just a catch all word for you to illustrate things you don't like.

    Are you seriously denying the link between the sociocultural issues discussed on this thread, and their active promotion by the political left?

    Quite a bizarre stance given the overwhelming weight of evidence against your position.



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    #894
    TomTomTim
    Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119266947#Comment_119266947

    It's nothing new, there used to be several posters who outright denied the existence of political correctness for years.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




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    #895
    growleaves
    Registered Users Posts: 7,857 ✭✭✭growleaves


    'I know know you don't believe in evolution biological, social or political.'

    ?

    Think you must be confusing me for someone else. When did I say that?

    China is a Marxist-Leninist regime with traditional Confucian, Han nationalist and pro-business elements intermixed in since the 70s.

    It's still Communist.



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    #896
    ArthurDayne
    Registered Users Posts: 1,764 ✭✭✭ArthurDayne


    As a general comment, I think it's sad to see this Ben Shapiro / Matt Walsh entertainment-style politics seeping into our discourse with this clumsy characterisation of "the Left" as some sort of singular hive mind. The Left is a broad church, as is the right, and many left leaning people are centrist on some issues and possibly even right leaning on others. There are left leaning people who find some of the modern talk about gender identity to be over-exuberant but simply dislike the way some right-leaning people lack compassion towards say trans people.

    It strikes me as enemy-creation. Much in the same way certain sectors of the British establishment created the caricature of the faceless Brussels Bureaucrat, we see this growing notion of a thing called The Left -- which means and refers to any number of things but conveniently lugs them all into one big enormous singular thing. An enemy to rally against.

    We are at a stage where seemingly everyone from Joe Biden to Fine Gael to Caitlyn Jenner are all part of one big team: The Left. It's ludicrous stuff and sadly growing ever more apparent in discourse.



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    #897
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 40,010 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119266986#Comment_119266986

    Are you a communist?



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    #898
    growleaves
    Registered Users Posts: 7,857 ✭✭✭growleaves


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119266996#Comment_119266996

    No, why?

    Xi Jinping is one though



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    #899
    nullzero
    Registered Users Posts: 16,738 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119266927#Comment_119266927

    Communist China isn't left wing?

    Glazers Out!



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    #900
    growleaves
    Registered Users Posts: 7,857 ✭✭✭growleaves


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119266914#Comment_119266914

    Marx and Engels were scathing of homosexuality. Castro was very opposed to it, sending homosexuals to dungeons or making them do hard labour.

    'Bourgeois degeneracy' was the pseudo-technical term used to describe it.



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    #901
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119267006#Comment_119267006

    It's Chinese communism.. not western communism.

    Entirely different agendas at play, due to the influence of Mao on the implementation, and indoctrination of communism within China, combined with the historical cultural influence of Confucius. The only connection to communism, as we know it, would be the propaganda focus used. Workers, Party, etc.

    Chinese communism isn't left wing. Not even slightly. It's barely even socialist. Only a wafer thin surface of socialism or communism exists today (It pretty much ended when the Cultural Revolution failed so badly, and the reaction within the political elite to those events).



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