The Pushback against Leftism

Well then I'll ask it a different way.

Would your views be more inline with Xi or let us say Jacinda Ardern?

Boggles brought the CCP into the conversation, not growleaves, so it's a bit unfair to blame him for responding to that, when he was only highlighting the views of traditional Marxists.

I don't personally consider the CCP as Marxists, as traditional Marxism is mainly economic, and they don't tick enough of those boxes. He's right though in saying that the original Marxists had beliefs that make modern right wing movements look progressive.

Really?

Great, what noted views of hers would you suggest mimic yours?

China is state capitalist

China had 35 years of one-child policy, which included forced abortions as part of its enforcement.

'Abortion in China is legal and generally accessible' according to Wikipedia.

Poster above who implied CCP restrict abortion was mistaken.

Yeah, saw a video recently with Matt Walsh entitled "Is the Left a SATANIC cult?". In the video he is asked to define the Left and he more or less sums it up as Leftism being the worship of the Self -- that individualism is paramount to the Left at the expense of whatever else. Those damn individualist Leftists.

Now obviously that's just his own definition, but it is indicative of the interpretive mosaic through which people view this singular concept of "the Left". I say that because, if you ask someone else, they will take an almost diametrically opposed view that the Left (far from being self-interested) is actually far too preoccupied with the suffering of others in far off lands and will let every refugee waltz into the country because CoMpAsSiOn.

And then someone else will say how the Left is stacked high with communists and socialists. Capitalism, an economic theory which centres on individualist self-reliance on wealth building and lesser State interference, is a darling -- but that collectivist anti-individualist socialism stuff is the great evil.

So essentially being on "the Left" means simultaneously being a ideological individualist but also caring too much about others but also believing that individualism should be stifled under the uniformity of socialism.

It gets more and more absurd as the years roll by. Quelle surprise that some American wing nut would try and equate the left with being BOTH individualist and collective...never mind "satanic".

FFS 🙄

What was that John Stuart Mill quote about conservatives?

I just watched the clip. He never mentions individualism, not as you've mentioned it at least. He mentions self interest and the worship of thyself. I had a feeling that was the case before even watching the clip, because they American right are very pro individualism, and are more likely to call the "left" collectivists than individualists. You've made a whole post about something that wasn't even said, which is why these discussions are so muddled.

I don't really quite know what you mean though. Whatever you mean by "leftism" as opposed to left wing or lefty politicians, it's still clear that leftism remains a broad church. Many on the Left want proper border controls too, they may have a difference of understanding what is meant by proper, but there doesn't appear to be any significant proportion of the Left who want none (significant meaning capable of implementing that want). Many people on the Left, or who at least seem left leaning, have likewise been heavy-handedly described as TERFs or racists or whatever else. I mean, I consider myself left leaning and liberal and yet have been made to feel like a bigot in conversations before by people who have more fervently liberal views on things (unfairly of course in my own opinion).

Leftism has simply become some catch all phrase for many in society to slap on any socioeconomic, political or cultural issue they don't agree with.

That's true even if they don't go across the street, and just sit in the middle of it instead.

What absolute bollocks.

You could switch the words Left for Right in that post and get plenty of thanks from people whose opinions are the opposite of yours. Why? Because everyone, regardless of political persuasion, wants to believe that they are the well-meaning ones with the right idea and the others are hateful and antagonising.

The reality is there are obnoxious, in-your-face types who want to force their opinions on others on both sides, just as there are live and let live, unassuming types who just get on with their business on both sides.

Your playing the victim and holier-than-thou schtick is contributing just as much to the polarising of both sides and making it into an 'us vs. them' topic.

The amount of "cancelling" and silencing of voices that go against modernists political views is measurable though; there's literally thousands and thousands of examples a year, and I doubt that the "right" even make up 5% of that amount. The both sides cards that you love to play is a weak one, especially in the modern world.

That's not to say that the right haven't done the same in past, they have, but all we can deal with is the now, and in the now, most of the guilt is largely on one side.