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Science Supports Trans People - Here is why

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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    If that gender is biologically rooted to manifest, then it will come out in later years / adulthood regardless. As we see with sexuality.

    Therefore, there is no need to impose this upon very young children who, quite frankly, have better things to be doing at that age.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,474 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Who is imposing anything on the children ?

    This is your fundamental misunderstanding - people are responding to what the child is saying about their gender not forcing them into anything. You want to deny them their freedom to express their needs until they meet your arbitrary age of consent.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Dunno why you seem to think that infertile/barren people are some kind of gotcha moment... because they're not. Just because some people are incapable of having children, doesn't mean that people choosing to transition are able to become their desired sex. Transition being the important part here. Especially since many of those seeking to transition are giving up the ability to have children, by transitioning.. In any case, though, it's irrelevant to the past points made.

    And I didn't say what sex change means to a trans person... once more you're showing your inability to stick to what posters have stated, and then, your desire to argue with yourself. I said nothing about a Trans persons needs in achieving personal acceptance. Nor did I claim to define what gender means to other people. I directed my post at that poster in relation to bias... so, again, you've decided to interject points and then counter your own points made.

    Your last paragraph does nothing to answer or counter my point about experience as the desire sex..

    I've given up trying to reason with you, because you consistently fail to address the points made.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,474 ✭✭✭Shoog


    You want to impose your valued on other people is what you are trying to do.

    You can have whatever opinion you want but you dont get to set the boundaries.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭BruteStock


    Children respond to adults , not the other way around. Its not any teachers role to be telling another person's child what their gender may or may not be. These gender identity obsessed teachers have no respect for the relationship between child and parent. Its one of the reasons why the community don't want any of this discussion out in the open. People have no tolerance when it comes to children and a trans ideology that has already destroyed a lot of lives



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  • Registered Users Posts: 367 ✭✭Gentlemanne


    Can I ask why you post essays? I'm hardly going to read all of that.

    2/3rds of it nothing to do with what I even said. May as well be shouting at a brick wall.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,474 ✭✭✭Shoog


    If you can provide a shred of evidence that this is actually occuring in Ireland rather than just in you imagination maybe you would have a point.



  • Registered Users Posts: 367 ✭✭Gentlemanne


    The bigots on this board spend a huge amount of energy being the pseudo intellectual debater who has heard of fallacies and knows a little bit about psychological theory but they're only trying to pick fights with people about how immigration or LGBT is ruining our society.


    Disingenuous and laughably pathetic. Can't wait until these dinosaurs die out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭BruteStock


    I never said it was , but it will be soon enough.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    Maybe my silly head, but they're kids!

    It's like me saying, as semi responsible parent,...'you silly goose. Running with scissors is not good. Here's another one. You got two hands...fire away." It's more efficient.

    Later in life when they only have one eye, "why didn't you stop me", "well son, who am I to stop you.'

    Any doctor who signs up to child hrt should be immediately struck off.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You want to impose your valued on other people is what you are trying to do.

    I'm sorry but it appears that this is very much what you are trying to do.

    Children aged 4 or 5 or 6 or 7 are not isolated in their bedrooms, grappling with the deep question of what non-binary gender they are, nor what gender means in relationship to the wider world.

    The only possible way that children can be introduced to think the above, as they have in recent years, is if adults and educators are introducing these concepts to children. It doesn't matter what you teach children, whether it's Santa Claus or anything else - they will believe adults and educators. That means there is an added responsibility to ensure that whatever we teach children, it is done in a way that does not cause needless confusion or disorientation.

    To expose concepts such as this to very young and impressionable children is grossly inappropriate; in exactly the same way it would be inappropriate to introduce a 5-year old to what sexuality they may be. They cannot know. And even if they did produce an answer, it would be at the behest of an adult asking them. It wouldn't be through their own personal volition.

    Best to leave these matters until adolescence at the very earliest and, even at that stage of development, the person cannot be fully sure about who they are nor what they stand for. It is a period of flux, as it is for all of us.

    Trying to argue that we should draw certainties from childhood reactions is a very irresponsible pathway to both tread and advocate.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,474 ✭✭✭Shoog


    No one is behaving in the way you suggest - people are taking responsible decisions about a difficult subject and try to produce the minimum amount of stress in their impacted children. It is no way responsible to tell you child - shush, we can deal with this when your an adult as I am not prepared to deal with it now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,474 ✭✭✭Shoog


    That is your opinion - but it is not supported by peoples lived experience. Children are saying they feel different regarding their gender and they always have. The only real difference is that previously they would have gotten a clip round the ear or worse and told to shut up. Now, at least some adults are taking responsible decisions about supporting their childrens words and actions. I can guarantee that none of those adults are thinking about gender reassignment as the first response to their childrens concerns.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    Actually bollox. Parents are there to support, look after and protect their children.

    Not to force their ideologies on them. They can make their own decisions over the age of 18. And I'll support that, to an extent.

    Anyone who thinks a pre pubescent child needs hrt should have tusla at their door and are not fit parents.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,474 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Which didn't address anything i said. You would refuse to talk to your children about gender if they approached you about it before the age of 18, you would deny them your advise and experience - you would leave them to find out about it themselves. That is totally irresponsible and a dereliction of your duty as a parent.

    Until it happens to you you can carry on telling yourself you are right.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    Again bollox. I didn't say that and you well know that.

    Dereliction of parenting? Ask my left one. I as a parent, pretty sure you're not, is a duty of care.

    You're telling me you are happy with young children, and they are young children, getting hrt? On whim basically.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Completely agree.

    Leave this to parents.

    The education system has no role to play in this sector.



  • Registered Users Posts: 342 ✭✭briangriffin


    There is a miniscule amount of research into any of the modern practices regarding children and gender identity. It is incomprehensible that anyone would judge what a child of 5 and over would say and allow that to shape their entire lives. That they were given puberty blockers and set down a medical pathway to transition will be the greatest medical scandal of the past 30 years. The only clinic that could have done a live study on its experimental practices (tavistock) did not follow patients for any length of time and refused to publish its report into medical transition until a court compelled it to in the public interest.

    Children of that age cannot consent to medical transition. Social transition and puberty blockers are not a neutral course of action. Gender ideology should not be any where near children. It is an absolute tradegy that confused children can on the one hand be allowed to grow up questioning everything in their lives without a hint of the word gender or identity rearing its head and others who unfortunately are exposed to this ideology are set down a medical pathway.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,474 ✭✭✭Shoog


    I am a parent of two grown children, and if my children had have went through a gender support service and the conclusion was arrived at that puberty blockers was the best way forward - then yes I would support them in that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,072 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭BruteStock


    Sick, she should be struck off for life. The BBC also fails to mention her husband wrongly prescribed sex change treatments which resulted in a patient killing themselves. He should be in jail.





  • Registered Users Posts: 5,474 ✭✭✭Shoog


    There is a large and growing body of research on transgender people - and there is growing evidence for a physical, hormonal and neurological basis for trans identities. That we would choose not to act on that evidence is the real abuse here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    The doctors should be struck off then.

    Kids are not pet dogs. In the vast minority of cases they will transition and good luck to them.

    But, kids are feckin kids! It's our responsibility as parents to look after them. They make the decision as adults.

    It's not love Island, it's not the taste of the day...I think it's fashionable.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    I'm silly now. Did you read the previous posts?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,474 ✭✭✭Shoog


    It is our duty to educate and support our children in all the issues they raise with us, whether we personally approve of those issues or not. It is our duty to be both their guide and servant.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    There's something rather sinister about how you've phrased this.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,474 ✭✭✭Shoog




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    I agree.

    But you're twisting the conversation, which find abhorrent and disingenuous.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The "whether we personally approve of those issues or not" is the problem part.

    One of the functions of the parent is to absolutely overrule children where we feel their protection or development, for example, may be compromised.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,474 ✭✭✭Shoog


    If you refuse to talk to your children about these issues in a frank and honest way then you are denying them the knowledge they need to make future decisions. Telling them that its not an issue to concern themselves with will leave them with no where to get the support they need. I would find it disgusting to see a parent refuse to discuss the issue of Trans with their children. Its not a matter of encouraging or praising what you personally consider to be an abhorrent subject - its about giving them enough information to answer their questions and remove their confusion/distress.



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