Suspected case of Foot and Mouth in UK with rapid diversion into Agribusiness policies and politics.

My point has nothing to do with beef price but the right for business owners not to have anyone interfering in their business.

It's a country of saddos that'd do it, this isn't russia you know. There has to be something in our constitution protecting us from interference like that.

John Bryan picked up the gauntlet when he started and challenged the grid, The biggest problem I saw was the human graders were actually grading easy compared to the grid despite the whingeing so farmers got a right shock when they were graded properly mechanically

Doesn't matter whether anyone agrees or not, they won't be told. they set the standard, real world beckons for a lot on here.

John bryan challenged it when he started, biggest problem was that teh AOs were grading easy and when the machines graded properly there was more complaining. Farmers wanted mechanical grading and then they didn't.

Actually Base, Irish factories did not make up that grid, That's the accepted 15 point grid for VIA technology across europe

Are you that sad, 5 or 10 claiming excessive salaries out of possibly 500 farmers working for you on miserly expenses, you've really set your level here tonight.

I wouldnt have begrudged them the salaries if they had protected their members . Many workers in areas outside of agriculture pay their representative bodies many multiplies of what farmers paid to the IFA . The difference is the representation that they receive . That is what really annoys me . I accept that being a shop steward or whatever is largely a thankless job but I have yet to hear a trade union rep ( or a former one ) coming out to take am employers side . Build your factory Etc

What a despicable attitude to portray to your fellow workers .

Again, a very insular view . I’m all right Jack . How many farmers would have benefitted from the County Councils CPOing their land for road improvement ? A handful in the counties where the motorways were built .

It isn’t necessary or compulsory to work in any field ( pardon the pun ) no more than it is compulsory to work to produce beef for Goodman et al. I accept that . My point still stands - Show me one example of a union leader that openly bats for those on the other side of the table ?

You went as far as to say upthread that you haven’t given a sh1t above beef prices for sometime now . Can you imagine if Phil Ni Sheadha or her predecessor came out and said something similar about nurses pay ? That won’t ever happen because there is a loyalty there to their colleagues .

That is the kind of representation that has benefitted their workers and that has been sadly lacking in farming .

Interesting ...except I'm not telling an "independent business how to run"......that independent business is telling me how to run mine to suit themselves, they are taking away my independence in effect.

If you look at how big chicken processors in the States operate, age limits are straight out of their playbook and a lot of other dirty tricks too and I see it going that way here too.......

If you examine the effects of something like that 30 month limit it is absolutely in the favour of the processors and merchants and **** with my business and my ability to withold stock when I want to if I'm not happy with price offered and take my chances later without knowing its a losing game.............thats stepping out of their business and into mine and its only a step on the ladder to making independent farmers more and more controlled by processors/vested interests

Think of it......that limit puts a deadline on when I have to shift stock, takes away a bargaining chip a much larger group of farmers should have (And they need all they can get). That plays into the hands of the processors in that over time it turns it even more into a high volume low price game if you want to make money and also means to have some stock fit in time I have pump them with meal etc.......none of that is in my or most smaller farmers best interests as it lowers prices due to higher volume and means more spent on inputs especially when everyone is swimming in the same direction, then they have to come up with other levers to lower prices beyond what they should have..... which imo is market rates and a decent cut for their efforts, but thats not what the 30 month limit is.......its in no way good for me and thats not whinging or moaning as you insultingly like to call it. Simply stating facts, If I'm wrong ill accept a reasoned argument and apologise but somehow I think you are just going to try characterise me as childish for giving and opinion and instead of trying to back it up your with some reasoning regale all with anecdotes and real or imagined hardships at the hands of IFA members in the past and throw in a sneaky insult in your own inimitable abrasive style Ive come to enjoy (somewhat perversely).

Anyway I'm not in the IFA, I left them behind long ago as they don't represent my interests and I'm not in beefplan either so Id appreciate it if you wouldn't include me in the bitching and moaning about them as if I'm some sort of representative sample that proves your point......... whatever it really is. BTW if we are doing anecdotes, a good while back I wasn't allowed get entitlements because I paid market rent to my parents on their small farm when they took that farm retirement scheme...Imagine that, I pay a fair rent to my elderly parents for land I rented off them to get going and that's probably the guts of 100k lost due to bad advice and what I should have done is pay them zero or a "nominal" amount of about a euro..... and I can tell you the IFA and local politicians were SFA use too..so your experience of the system and mine are very different.....

Now as for the Rubbish cattle over 30 months.............thats bullshit, I know this for a fact having had one of mine slaughtered and divided up amongst the family years back.....I know this because some of the best beef you can get comes from Dairy Cows let out to grass after they have been in the dairy industry for years......there isnt some magic age limit that once you go past it the beef magically becomes "rubbish".....there might however be a scientific argument that pumped animal at 22 months might not be the best quality or most flavoursome beef you could get.......I've heard it described as bland by people willing to pay a hell of a lot for the good stuff tbh......instead of telling me its childish do you think you could tell me what justification it has beyond lowering prices for the product I produce....

Anyway afaics a previous poster hit the nail on the head, your attitude is very insular, its an I'm all right jack attitude. I doubt you would admit it but I also doubt you would like it if I called you childish for continually bringing up bad experiences at a voluntary role. Maybe all of us havent done well out of the set up the way it is and didnt get the million in compensation for CPOed land etc and think its going in a direction where we are going to be more like the poor indentured slaves raising chickens for monopolies like Tyson in the states.

I ain't telling them how to run their business....I'm saying they shouldnt have the ability to tell me how to run mine using spurious age limits. That's a lever they shouldn't have, it's overstepping the margin by a long way and there's no justification for it.

It's corrupt fuckology but if someone can explain to me how it isn't I'm all ears.

Wtf has that to do with my question/statement

I'm not at all sure how anything I wrote in the post you are replying to means I think anyone owes me a living.....As far as I can see its an attempt not to address the point I was making/obfuscate/sidetrack.

I do think I owe it to myself to state an opinion, back it up with some sort of reasoning and be willing to listen to other peoples views if they have any sort of reasoning .... quite curious to know what your reasoning for saying the above is.

BTW your customer wants the 22month beef off you so you can be less independent and more under their control.......not a good thing for most of us long term.

Ah.....well that at least makes sense.

No, you might have taken that implication from it but I'm not naive, I don't expect them to do anything except feather their own nests tbh.....that probably explains why you thought I was childish for expressing an opinion.

I'm not expecting them to change and consider their suppliers at all (unless they go so hard they have to because it will threaten their bottom line).....Its every man/woman and whatever gender you are having yourself for him/herself etc in this world.

I was simply expressing an opinion that there's zero justification for a 30 month age limit beyond the industry driving up production driving down prices and supplying a number of vested interests with increased income while slowly reducing the income and living standards of the farmer....and I stand by that until I'm proved wrong.....and that's something I think is a better course of action than que sera sera it is the way it is and that's it and if you question it or make an argument against it you are derided as childish.....

On a related note I see a teagasc professor writing in the journal today stating reducing slaughter age will reduce GHG emissions.....

I'm raging I can't go to Beef 2022 and put a couple of questions to him regarding how that's possible in the broader context of the industry and what it encourages in terms of higher throughput, more inputs etc....I wonder if its possible the claim is bring made by considering what they want to consider and ignoring the overall context? As I'm finding it difficult to see how less animals putting on weight naturally for higher prices wouldn't be better for farmers and the old GHG emissions....I expect I'd get some **** waffley hand wavey shite initially and then brushed over and told I couldn't possibly understand if I pressed any further........but seeing as it's out there I wonder if anyone here could take a stab at answering ....how if you take all factors into account is this increased "efficiency" good for

1) the environment and 2) my livelihood longterm

For cattle/sheep to be killed younger would the not need feed supplement to ensure correct fat score? Which adds additional emissions.

I suppose cattle are the bad boys of emissions, Acre of barley (3 ton) would finish 6 cattle in instead of having them on 6 acres for an extra three months.

I'm not following this climate change bolloxology, it won't affect me

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I was beginning to think there was no realists left on F & F