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What does the future hold for Donald Trump? - threadbans in OP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,637 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Cassidy said it under oath, the others claim they will, might, definitely, any say now, absolutely, will under oath.

    So you have one side under oath, and the other side being quoted by 'sources', not under oath or even in person yet your first position is to side with those failing to stand up?



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,712 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    I believe her legal team also released a statement the next day after people were questioning some of her details, that she stands by the testimony she made under oath. If she did realise she needed to change or amend any details, I believe she's able to do so in writing to the Committee.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,700 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    Lol. Accusing others of being cult like.


    You couldn't make this sh1t up!



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,625 ✭✭✭✭extra gravy


    The lack of self-awareness is something else. So much so, you'd have to assume it's trolling at this stage.



  • Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    This is not a legal case, it's sifting a lot of information into the public domain on a very remarkable and unsavoury event, also a function of a political system. Will it result in a legal case against Trump? Very probably not. Does it show him as an even less suitable person to be President? Absolutely. What it also does is give the GOP and supporters reason to look at other options, like DeSantis. That's good for everyone.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,381 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    Lack of knowledge on the subject ✅

    Lack of engagement when challenged ✅

    Dissappears for long periods of time✅

    strawman arguments when actually does engage ✅



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,712 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    The hearings are a precursory investigation to determine if Trump and people in his administration should be charged and investigated by the Department of Justice which would then lead to a trial in a court of law. Regardless, people have and are testifying under oath, and evidence which would form part of the DoJ's charges against Trump&Admin already being collected and verified.

    Cassidy Hutchinson testified under oath. The "fact" the secret service agents are willing to deny the claims under oath matters little when they have not testified under oath. If or when they do, that's all part of the process. Going through everyones testimony (not just what sources say on Twitter) and finding the facts. But even if they say Trump never tried to grab the wheel or tried to grab an agent by the neck, she only said that's what she was told happened (and as has been pointed out, is not hearsay and therefore is allowable in a court of law). It doesn't negate the other testimony she gave about events or conversations she was present for, or documents/evidence submitted to the Committee's investigators.

    And yes, people consider these hearings to be less of a priority than the economy, or crime, or climate change. Of course they do, because those things affect everyone, whereas these hearings affect a small number of people (though the effect that no charges being brought could have on elections would be significant and hugely damaging going forward). But considering that one in three people surveyed consider it to be a high priority is still no small thing.

    It's not about whether or not people care about it, it's about doing it because it's the right thing to do. Trump tried to have the results of a fair election negated because he lost, in an attempt to unfairly and illegally hold on to the Presidency. That needs to be investigated and people involved held accountable where any crimes were committed. Viewing figures or opinion polls mean absolutely jack sh*t.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭PropJoe10


    "It's actually cult like behaviour to believe lie after lie after lie" - I hope the irony isn't lost on people here. Well played.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,360 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    Pick a narrow point and dispute that whilst ignoring the wider story, then make a claim like ‘most people’ or ‘lots are saying’ it drives the narrative away from the actual story and gives them their talking points and more importantly just enough of a feeling of being right that makes them happy with their stand point.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,070 ✭✭✭TheIrishGrover


    Yeah, I have asked many many times where the line was. EACH TIME I said something like "We just want to know where the line is. We won't even reply/debate your response" and the response 100% of the time has been silence. 100% of the time.

    What we DO know is that:

    • Serial sexual assault is NOT the line
    • Monetary Fraud is NOT the line
    • Insurrection instigation is NOT the line
    • Lying is NOT the line
    • Election Fraud is NOT the line
    • Cheating is NOT the line
    • Homophobia is NOT the line
    • Racism is NOT the line
    • Support of white supremacists is NOT the line
    • Support of nations hostile to the US is NOT the line
    • Support of dictatorships hostile to the US is NOT the line

    We KNOW this to be true because he was been proven to have done ALL these acts (Even their precious fox is now saying so) and his ... fans still support him.

    So, long story short, there is actually no line.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,535 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Hutchinson hearing sets record for daytime television viewership of a hearing: Over 13 million people.

    The first Jan 6 hearing was over 20 million, but that was during prime-time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭PropJoe10


    It's true, and it's very stark when it's laid out in those bullet points. Crazy times we're living in.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,700 ✭✭✭✭everlast75




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,070 ✭✭✭TheIrishGrover


    Well he DOES have a history of flip-flops.....



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,381 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    Just to note, the decision to give testimony by Ms Hutchinson came following her dumping her trump-paid lawyer, like the mob running a cult



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,535 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    And the GQP are of course on the attack - at least one of their stalwarts was drooling over how attractive she was and that's why she was chosen. Jesse "Racebaiting old asians in Chinatown NYC for fun and profit" Watters piled on to whoever it was the GQP dug up (Gregg Kelly?) to do the drooling:





  • Registered Users Posts: 33,712 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    It's also been revealed that one of the text messages Liz Cheney read out at the end of the hearing on people trying to influence witnesses before they testify, was sent from an associate of Mark Meadows to Hutchinson.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭BruteStock


    @Penn

    "But even if they say Trump never tried to grab the wheel or tried to grab an agent by the neck, she only said that's what she was told happened (and as has been pointed out, is not hearsay and therefore is allowable in a court of law)"

    Hearsay is the most common objection to a testimony in a court of law. Cassidy would be removed from the stand within minutes in a court of law because what you just described is the definition of hearsay. Cassidy can only testify in court to what she bore witness to , not somebody else. Anybody with the most basic understanding of law knows this.

    Any credibility these hearings may have had were just shattered into pieces by the utterly laughable claim Trump lunged into the cockpit of a limo to wrestle the steering wheel off his secret service agent driver . . Its actually disturbing how many people have bought into this crap.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,527 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Trump paying the legal fees of someone he "hardly knew" and "loser" with "mental health problems"

    Yeah.. that makes sense , I mean I pay the legal bills of random strangers all the time..



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,381 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    Speaking of swallowing bullshit. Why do you chose to believe someone who's posting on an unregulated social media site over someone who's testifying under oath and at risk of being charged with perjury?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 33,712 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    She's testifying about the conversation she had, but even then there are numerous rules and exemptions regarding hearsay, which most legal experts agree Hutchinson's testimony comply under.




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,081 ✭✭✭relax carry on




  • Registered Users Posts: 19,700 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    Someone who believes Alex Jones' utter bullsh1t has zero ability to discern truth from fiction and therefore has zero credibility here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,637 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Seriously Brute, this has been explained already. She did not testify that it happened, she testified that that is what she heard. That is not hearsay as she was there to hear the conversation. She is not relying on the account of someone else, which would be hearsay, she is recounting what she heard

    Second, this isn't a court of law. It is a process to try to uncover what happened, so that if a court of law is needed it can be done. So your call that it wouldn't be accepted in a court if law is A) wrong but B) irrelevant.

    She said this under oath, Trump, Meadows, Jordan etc have all refused to state under oath. She has created the possibility that she is in trouble if found to be lying. Why would she risk that? And why won't Trump et al go under oath to tell the truth (as you believe it to be)?

    And hearsay is the most common objection? Where did you get that piece of data from?

    As for credibility, Trump has consistently touted the use of violence. And we are well aware that he did see himself as the top man, answerable to no one (it is legal just because he is POTUS for example). HE has no respect for the secret service - he chose Putin over them which tells you all you need to know about what he thinks of them, thinks the military are useless (he knows more than all the generals). So it makes perfect sense that when faced with a possible route to grab the POTUS prise, and being overruled by this secret service operative - who he believes are all corrupt and working for HC - it is entirely reasonable to at least consider that he would attempt such a ridiculous move.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,527 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    There is a key point to be considered here.

    Every single person claiming that the various witnesses to the Jan 6th Committee are lying about what happened have all thus far refused to appear or to provide statements to officially refute the information.

    Look at Ginni Thomas for example - All bravado saying "I'd love to talk to the Committee to clear things up" , then as soon as she actually gets sent the letter of Invite , she's refusing to attend through her lawyer.

    One side has put their money where there mouths are and gone under oath, making them subject to legal penalty for perjury.

    The other side is trash-talking on social media.

    I know which one is infinitely more believable at this point.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,712 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Even then, Trump isn't being investigated for trying to grab the steering wheel or trying to grab an agent. If that's proven to be false, fine. It's a headline-grabbing, but ultimately irrelevant, detail.

    It's the fact that he was demanding to go to the Capitol with a large mob to protest and likely disrupt the certification of the election results, following months of trying all other measures possible to overturn the election results, which is important, and no-one is countering that point.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,311 ✭✭✭Cody montana


    Ok maybe he did do it, but he didn’t mean it!

    Ok he did mean it, but it wasn’t illegal!!



  • Registered Users Posts: 83,136 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    If any of these claims could be held up in a court of law we'd be hearing them in... a court of law

    Chill out, you will. You will.

    (not to mention the other 800+ people already in jail or sentenced or pardoned for their involvement)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 83,136 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Cassidy would be removed from the stand within minutes in a court of law because what you just described is the definition of hearsay.

    Tell me you've never seen a trial without telling me you have never seen a trial.

    Cassidy can only testify in court to what she bore witness to , not somebody else.

    That's. What. She. Did.

    CASSIDY HUTCHINSON: When I returned to the White House, I walked upstairs towards the chief of staff's office, and I noticed Mr. Ornato lingering outside of the office. Once we had made eye contact, he quickly waved me to go into his office, which was just across the hall from mine. When I went in, he shut the door, and I noticed Bobby Engel, who was the head of Mr. Trump's security detail, sitting in a chair, just looking somewhat discombobulated and a little lost.

    I looked at Tony and he had said, did you f'ing hear what happened in the beast? I said, no, Tony, I — I just got back. What happened? Tony proceeded to tell me that when the president got in the beast, he was under the impression from Mr. Meadows that the off the record movement to the Capitol was still possible and likely to happen, but that Bobby had more information.

    So, once the president had gotten into the vehicle with Bobby, he thought that they were going up to the Capitol. And when Bobby had relayed to him we're not, we don't have the assets to do it, it's not secure, we're going back to the West Wing, the president had a very strong, a very angry response to that.

    Tony described him as being irate. The president said something to the effect of I'm the f'ing president, take me up to the Capitol now, to which Bobby responded, sir, we have to go back to the West Wing. The president reached up towards the front of the vehicle to grab at the steering wheel. Mr. Engel grabbed his arm, said, sir, you need to take your hand off the steering wheel.

    We're going back to the West Wing. We're not going to the Capitol. Mr. Trump then used his free hand to lunge towards Bobby Engel. And Mr. — when Mr. Ornato had recounted this story to me, he had motioned towards his clavicles.

    LIZ CHENEY: And was Mr. Engel in the room as Mr. Ornato told you this story?

    CASSIDY HUTCHINSON: He was.

    LIZ CHENEY: Did Mr. Engel correct or disagree with any part of this story from Mr. Ornato?

    CASSIDY HUTCHINSON: Mr. Engel did not correct or disagree with any part of the story.

    LIZ CHENEY: Did Mr. Engel or Mr. Ornato ever after that tell you that what Mr. Ornato had just said was untrue?

    CASSIDY HUTCHINSON: Neither Mr. Ornato nor Mr. Engel told me ever that it was untrue.



This discussion has been closed.
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