Dublin Pride ends media partnership with RTE over Liveline's Gender Identity discussion

01-07-2022 1:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119275632#Comment_119275632

I held my hands up and said I regret the use of the terms I wrote.

I've made no excuses. It was a poor choice of words and I shouldn't have used them.

Language is absolutely important and I made a mistake with the language I used in this particular situation.

When posting here, I don't carefully curate my posts, I use it as a discussion board and throughout the course of discussions, on here and in real life, people can, and do, say things they regret/phrase things badly/misspeak/use regrettable language. I have often posted and thought "balls, I really should have said "x" instead of "y"" or "you know, that really didn't do my argument any favours" but that is part and parcel of a robust discussion.

I make no apologies for it but I do hold my hands up when I feel I was wrong, and in this case, on reflection, I should have used less inflammatory terminology.

LLMMLL · 01-07-2022 2:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119274578#Comment_119274578

Eh no. Most people have not called their gay friends f*****s or their trans friends ladyboys.

and no I don’t believe that you have trans friends who you have called ladyboy. It’s just an invention to justify your gross insults.

01-07-2022 2:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119276101#Comment_119276101

I beg to differ. I have said some horrendous things to my gay friends and they have returned the "compliment" with blistering insults towards me. All done in absolute jest and never to offend. I'd say you are well in the minority here.

I honestly don't care if you believe me or not. It is true though. In fact, it was only last week at a pride-friendly gig that I happened to be at.

I dont claim to call them that all the time. No, I don't. Only when contextually appropriate. As I said, I usually refer to them by their names. I wouldn't be in their company if their "gender" was constantly being referred to.

edit also for full disclosure, I wouldn't necessarily call the transpeople in question "friends" but they are friends of friends who were in my "circle" that night in question. I wouldn't claim that they were my besties.

km991148 · 01-07-2022 2:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119276133#Comment_119276133

Oh yeah for sure, people can be vile amongst friends.. but you are asking people to believe that you mistakenly thought this was a contextually appropriate time.. hmm ok

01-07-2022 2:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119276161#Comment_119276161

That's not what I said at all.

I have already said that I regret my words and on reflection, should definitely have used a different term. It was inappropriate for this conversation.

I think I have explained that in detail.

raclle · 01-07-2022 4:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119274200#Comment_119274200

Stop being a hypocrite. Has anyone even answered why these media debates get shutdown yet? And remember there's two sides to every story

01-07-2022 4:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119276180#Comment_119276180

They are trying to move the conversation away from the strong points you made about gender, sex, the Liveline debates etc. - the actual subject of this thread.

01-07-2022 4:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119276785#Comment_119276785

Ah I know. I predicted they would from the moment I said what I did.

But it's my fault. I did give them an "easy out".

Mic 1972 · 01-07-2022 4:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119274089#Comment_119274089

Governments should not go down this path at all.

Worst case you can indicate box sex and gender on ID documents, where Sex stays the same and gender can change like you change address.

Obviously with the amount of straight people giving a go at non binary genders this might result in a mess

km991148 · 01-07-2022 5:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119276818#Comment_119276818

Of course you did! It's why you said it, to get a rise at least or to keep this nonsense going.

And now you all are perpetuating it. You all just love it!

km991148 · 01-07-2022 5:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119276744#Comment_119276744

Nah not hypocritical, just calling bs when I see it. At least you are paying lip service to the thread topic, something I haven't done at all to be fair!

01-07-2022 5:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119277026#Comment_119277026

I'd rather we went back onto the fact that some people are saying that sex and gender are the same, rather than focus on my unfortunate choice of words.

Do you believe gender and sex are separate?

xxxxxxl · 01-07-2022 5:28pm

So Has anything come out about the Pride attack. I can't find much, An attack too place according to a source that mentions the Garda.

busunderer · 01-07-2022 5:29pm

Toronto Police not wanting to take the Joe road...

https://twitter.com/TorontoPolice/status/1542496992626106368

mjsc1970 · 01-07-2022 5:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119277117#Comment_119277117

WTAF

km991148 · 01-07-2022 5:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119277041#Comment_119277041

I agree back to the topic! Course they are. Next. More word salad? What's next, adding biological to everything? Static gender? Or would you like to go to the science behind it. I mean the actual science that explains why some people are trans?

Or do you just want to soapbox about confused transexuals and delusional ladyboys? What about finding some articles about people with mental health issues or from abused backgrounds that also happen to be trans and post articles from the daily mail in a weak attempt to paint all trans the same? Or maybe you want to talk about all these (fake) people transing our children?

What about how trans people are far more likely to be attacked, raped or murdered than be the perpetrator of such?

What about how there is a cohort of people that want nothing more than create all this noise, to keep people locked in endless, pointless debates? That perpetrate myths that imply womens rights are eroded by trans rights? That's a really interesting one that only really serves one group...

Some of these points are clearly sarcasm, but some are very serious indeed.

However, I don't believe you, or many others on here actually care about any of these issues. I don't believe most are caring of women's rights or anything else other than themselves or winning points on the internet. So I see little point in having these endless 'discussions' on places like this.

Of course, I'll jump on now and again and have a sarcastic comment or take the piss, but really boards.ie (the issues themselves are but there are other places for that) isn't worth much more to me.

km991148 · 01-07-2022 6:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119277117#Comment_119277117

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119277138#Comment_119277138

Ultimately a vulnerable person is missing. regardless of how they look or identify. You are no better than the ones filling the Twitter feed with nonsense. Just more noise. Quite sad really.

01-07-2022 6:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119277208#Comment_119277208

A lot to unpack there. mostly bullshit.

Out of all that malarkey, I will address a few points of contention.

My position is very easy to understand.

I am a firm believer of sex and gender being separated.

The reason for this is that sex is absolute. It's provable. It means something.

Gender is incomprehensibly subjective and means absolutely nothing.

The conflation comes from Trans Rights Activists who only recognise two genders and then also say that it includes the word sex too.

With regards rape statistics, I have no idea why you think this furthers your argument.

I'm not claiming Trans people are rapists.

Women's rights are eroded by allowing me to be addressed and treated as women when they are not.

I have no idea why you are against me using the word biological, because you have backed me into a corner where I have to in order for you to understand that when I say women, I mean ACTUAL women. Not men who identify as women. But does include women who identify as men.

I am talking specifically about women. Biological women.

Biology and facts trump people's want to be something

Men presenting themselves as women or women presenting themselves as men is simply not true. They are free to do it, but to legislate as of it's a fact, is simply nonsense.

01-07-2022 6:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119277117#Comment_119277117

Well now...

Ha. Ffs

km991148 · 01-07-2022 6:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119277251#Comment_119277251

You lost me at bullshit, it's time for a beer, can't even be arsed reading the rest of it, such is my regard of your opinion 😆

01-07-2022 7:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119277290#Comment_119277290

That's absolutely fine and pretty much what I expected from you.

You and your friend have no intention of arguing in good faith, but I still believe that it's worth talking about.

When people who think like you are afraid to answer questions, it just shines a light on how silly and ridiculous your logic is.

Enjoy your beers. Have a great weekend.

Annasopra · 01-07-2022 7:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119277393#Comment_119277393

Indeed. I don't think a lot of posters here despite what they say have ever shown trans people any respect at all. Just ranting and raving about why they shouldn't legally exist.

01-07-2022 7:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119277578#Comment_119277578

Not one person on this thread has argued for trans- people to be non-existent. Not one.

What we're saying is that, where rights compete, it is generally preferable to side with biological sex than to the whims of subjective gender.

Moreover, we're saying that a debate on this matter is essential given the obviously competing rights.

I don't think that's an unreasonable position to hold.

BruteStock · 01-07-2022 7:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119277578#Comment_119277578

Your argument for trans people existing is predicated on real women not existing.

01-07-2022 7:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119277614#Comment_119277614

I could be wrong here, but I think their definition of Woman is both cis women and trans women.

So the "real women not existing" thing wouldn't apply.

Not that I agree with this, but that tends to be the kind of response I've seen in the past.

BruteStock · 01-07-2022 8:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119277633#Comment_119277633

Sören Kierkegaard wrote, “Once you label me, you negate me.” When the individual must live up to the label, the self ceases to exist. The same is true of self-labels. You could be negating yourself by identifying with your trademarks, rather than your own potential for growth.”

Ten of Swords · 01-07-2022 8:11pm

Mod - Thread has become pages and pages of bickering and generic gender identity arguments that have been extensively covered in previous threads.

Can we get back to discussing the core topics as per the op? If not then this thread has probably run it's course

raclle · 01-07-2022 10:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119277031#Comment_119277031

At least I've tried to move the topic forward but all your doing is deflecting blame. I'm not going to rinse and repeat what others have already said where we continue to go around in circles. If you're not willing to discuss where we go moving forward and not just play a blame game, well as @Ten of Swords has stated the thread has probably run its course.

01-07-2022 10:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119278120#Comment_119278120

Actually, I think this entire thread exemplifies everything about what happened over the Liveline debacle.

In other words, that there is an absolute need to have an open and honest conversation on matters related to the trans- question, but without being abusive or in any way undermining the trans- community.

So whilst tangential issues may have cropped up, as they do in every discussion, I think the spirit of the thread is very much aligned with what happened with Liveline. At 52 pages to date, this thread has shown, as with Liveline, that a robust debate on these questions has a very, very wide appeal.

And for the most part, if not almost all of it, it can be done in an amicable and respectful manner.

mjsc1970 · 01-07-2022 10:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119277224#Comment_119277224

I read the tweet and shook my head and said those actual words to myself. That's it.

And posted WTAF and probably should have put a confused emoji beside it. But I wasn't arsed.

And you picked that and spewed out the above at me.

I think you might need a rest from this. That's as polite I can be with you.

Dublin Pride ends media partnership with RTE over Liveline's Gender Identity discussion

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