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Better Call Saul ***Spoilers***

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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,636 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm



    Theory that Kim was always a bad egg, and tried to suppress her ducking and diving mindset.

    Which started with those ill-gotten earrings she kept, that her mother gave her

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,390 ✭✭✭✭martyos121


    Just finished that one myself in my rewatch, felt exactly the same. Obviously the different actor for his granddaughter slightly takes away from it but when you look at the two shows together as one story, Mike certainly has the widest and most sentimental arc of them all.

    Another thing I've noticed in the rewatch which may have been obvious to most already, Gus isn't half as much a villain as Walt was. As well as that, I actually enjoyed him taunting Hector having seen their story play out between this and BCS. Gus is something of an antivillian now in my eyes, written as a psychopathic antagonist but I couldn't help but side with him on a lot of things this time around (obviously not having the child shot though).

    The main reason I wanted to rewatch was to piece together what might happen with Lalo and Kim in the final episodes. The only theory I have for Kim is:

    She somehow ends up in a high legal position within Madrigal before the end of BCS. How she gets there, that could go any number of ways, but rather than the theories of her tying in with Lalo, I think she'll cut a deal with Fring, her and Jimmy guaranteed their safety in exchange for setting Lalo up for the kill. With that safety comes complete separation of the two, though.

    Mike's interaction with Kim in the diner and the fact that Saul is never allowed any contact with Gus in Breaking Bad (he knows a guy, who knows a guy, as he put it, but he does know his name still), are the convincing factors for me.

    So my prediction for the ending of the series is Gene getting on a plane to Germany in the hopes of reuniting with Kim, but we don't see how he gets on with that.

    That's my brain dump anyway. It'll be nice to have it in writing in case there's any truth to it, but knowing Vince Gilligan, absolutely nobody has correctly predicted the events of the final episodes yet.



  • Registered Users Posts: 450 ✭✭RickBlaine


    I was listening to the Insider podcast for that episode and the writer / director had a disagreement with Jonathan Banks regarding the scene where he leaves Kaylee at the playground. Banks thought that Mike would rather be arrested than abandon Kaylee alone in a playground. The writers / director justified it by saying that Mike probably called Kaylee's mother off screen to tell her where she is.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,580 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    I'd still agree with Jonathan Banks. It felt extremely out of character that Mike would have left Kaylee. Even if he rang her mother, surely you'd be talking at least 15minutes before the mother would have gotten there.

    The only real way to justify it would be that some of the cops would have stayed watching Kaylee in order to try catch Mike, but still, just didn't feel like something Mike would do. He would have gotten arrested, waited for Saul to get him out and Walt to pay his bail, and then did a runner.



  • Registered Users Posts: 450 ✭✭RickBlaine



    I agree too. One of those moments where the plot took priority over the character.

    I do wonder though if they would have written a different ending for him if they knew in hindsight how his character was developed in BCS.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,423 ✭✭✭AlanG


    I just caught up with the show (S6Ep7) and was really disappointed with the first half of this season. Super slow and more about cinematography than story. The massive ratings for the final episode on IMDB suggests that most casual observers have given up in the show. Killing off Howard in the way he was does not make it an amazing episode, it seemed badly planned as even though it is a very slow , character driven show they seemed to cram in the redemption of Howard into the last couple of episodes (Wife, reflective speech, shrink). The whole Howard storyline was badly played out. Massive amounts of time given to a story line with no clear motivation, a huge reliance on good look for kim and Jimmy to succeed , rather than a clever plan and in the end an easy conclusion to the problem.

    I fear that the writers are going for the recent trend of trying to get viewers to grow to hate the main characters and kill off the likable ones just to show how unconventional and clever the writers are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,583 ✭✭✭✭Snake Plisken


    Interesting the new teaser with Kim's voiceover with the blood smeared candle it's at the start of this breakdown




  • Registered Users Posts: 450 ✭✭RickBlaine


    I disagree with this but just to pick up on your last paragraph, getting the viewers to grow to hate the main character is one of the main arcs of Walter in Breaking Bad and arguably likewise with killing the likable ones (Mike, Hank, even Gale). If it is a current trend (I don't watch enough TV to notice it), it was probably inspired by BB to begin with.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,433 ✭✭✭VG31


    Tony Soprano was the first major TV antihero. Even at his worst in season 6, he is still more likeable than Walter White ever was. Unlike WW he has charm and charisma. Despite it being clear he's an awful person, you can find yourself forgetting that and rooting for him at times which shows what a brilliant character he is. I never felt that way at all with WW. He doesn't really have any redeeming qualities.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,636 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    A condensed breakdown of the key moments, which put Jimmy on course to becoming Saul.


    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8 Brashy


    I've seen this theory proposed and I'm not sure I really buy it. People just really want Kim to survive the series and are reaching in my opinion



  • Registered Users Posts: 450 ✭✭RickBlaine


    I'd be surprised if Kim dies to be honest. It just seems like the obvious conclusion to her character and thus the writers will want to go a different route.

    I do think she will end up in a bad place, be it disbarred, in prison, or disappeared by the vacuum guy. At least in the Jimmy / Saul timeline. I'm very curious to know if we'll see her in the Gene timeline.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24 FurrySlippers


    Kim being killed is the obvious conclusion. She's not in BB, and her path to redemption disappeared when she did the U turn to fix the broken arm pictures to shaft Howard.

    So if she doesn't die, she has to go down the Vacuum store route.


    When Jimmy/Saul is running to the store, to dissappear, he asked his secretary to set up a call on a specific date and time. So maybe Kim disappeared with Vacuum guy (Ed Galbraith).

    Dead Kim would shatter Saul. Doubt he could be who he is in BB. Disappeared Kim feeds cynicism which is consistent with his character in BB.

    Her survival via disappearing is dependent on them not going together...



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,636 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    I am probably very slow on the uptake. But I have only realised that the woman who acts as Mike’s daughter in law - Stacey. Is a woman from Tipp called Kerry Condon. I never even twigged any hint of an Irish accent.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,636 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    Mike and Gus 'de-aged' - 'don't' - Gus's explanation, to Mike. 


    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 32,381 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    Slippin Bob might have slipped up again and given another spoiler away. I will not say what it is, I expect it will turn up in those "theory videos" on youtube, like the last one did.



  • Registered Users Posts: 32,381 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    I just read

    " Better Call Saul screened the 8th episode of its final season at the Tribeca Film Festival this past weekend and we were there!"

    So expect plenty of spoilers in various videos etc, I will be giving all them a miss until it airs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,677 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    I know someone who had the end of the first half of this season ruined by Waterford Whispers.

    I hope I don't get stung

    Glazers Out!



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,400 ✭✭✭Homelander


    Putting aside that it's been critically well received on all platforms, critical and public, it also continues to have high viewership. If anything more people are watching it, according to AMC there was a 65% increase in the amount of people watching on AMC Plus compared to the first episode.

    They were never trying to redeem Howard, just a way of reminding us that this guy we were all rooting for Kim and Jimmy to take down and ruin is a normal guy with his own life and problems who frankly hasn't done anything to deserve the level of what they're doing to him.

    Thought his scene demanding to know why was really excellent, really captures how utterly absurdly groundless the whole affair is, despite Kim and Jimmys justifications....although Jimmy's only motivation is Kim.

    Howard's been one of the best characters in the show, and I was gutted to see that end for him but I thought it was solid TV and a very transformative moment for Kim and Jimmy, neither of which even actually hate Howard to begin with, more just what he represents.

    I think BCS is just as good as Breaking Bad in its own way, I remember when it was announced I wasn't thrilled and I didn't think they'd pull it off in any sort of meaningful way but they have, and spectacularly.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,246 ✭✭✭ Romina Tangy Oaf


    In the scene near the end in BB, Saul gives his assistant a business card of a top lawyer, when theyre shredding documents, after rewatching BB recently. i took that the lawyer he was on about was Kim



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,515 ✭✭✭bren2001


    They show this in BCS. It makes no sense to be Kim as Kim knows Francesca already. He wouldn't need to say "tell 'em Jimmy sent you". It is likely someone in BCS, I'd guess Cliff Main or Rich Schweikart [but both might be too old].



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,641 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I think it way surpasses BB and that is not a criticism of BB.

    The depth of character exploration in BCS is amazing. Kim is still a mystery and Jimmy is an evolving paradox. Brilliant film making.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,445 ✭✭✭✭MEGA BRO WOLF 5000


    Having this discussion in work today and both of came to this conclusion. The evolution of Walter White in BB is just simply amazing... But BCS has that same character development with multiple characters throughout it's 6 seasons. It shows the evolution of the writing... I thought the wire was the best thing I'd ever seen, then BB came along and I said this is IT... But BCS has set a new bar... It's stunning.


    It was bloody slow to get here... But by Jesus, it was worth it. It's a prequel, it shouldn't be this good.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,000 ✭✭✭trashcan


    Loved Breaking Bad, and I agree that BCS is at least its equal. Neither of them surpass the Wire for me though. Still the best I’ve seen, or expect to see.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,445 ✭✭✭✭MEGA BRO WOLF 5000


    I loved the wire. Like the experience of watching... But ya never got that payoff...because it's so real in any season, but that was ok. This and BB feels more complete while still remaining realistic.



  • Registered Users Posts: 450 ✭✭RickBlaine


    I was listening to the Breaking Bad Insider podcast for one of the final episodes which would have been recorded in back in 2013 and Vince Gilligan was saying his career can only go downhill because he'll never be able to match the success of Breaking Bad. At that point, I think they knew privately that Better Call Saul was in the pipeline but I'm sure even he couldn't have guessed it would match or even surpass Breaking Bad.

    He's had an amazing career - a writer / producer of loads of The X-Files episodes, and creator / showrunner of Breaking Bad, and Better Call Saul. Three of the best TV shows ever.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,636 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    It was a very smart move from Gilligan BCS is basically Breaking Bad at different angle.

    The viewer is tricked into thinking the focus is James McGill. Who is breaking bad. But in reality it is Kim Wexler who has made the major transformation. And her is the main driver of not only Jimmy but the series itself. I believe this was planned and happened organically. As the writers were going to kill Kim off at one stage earlier in the series?

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,515 ✭✭✭bren2001


    Maybe I'm in the minority here but i do not think BB and BCS are on the same level. BB is far better and more interesting than BCS. I enjoy BCS but BB had me hooked.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,641 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Dunno about that. Jimmy's path is still the focus for me. The subtle camera shots of his reactions to where Kim is going is fascinating, is it repulsion or awe? Will it be what ultimately separates them and how does Jimmy get to be the Saul we know in BB



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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,583 ✭✭✭✭Snake Plisken


    Did we see the ending of the show in this short teaser for season 6?

    Gene makes it right by handing himself in to police ends up going to Jail?




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