Older novice lifter progression advice please

Macsimus · 27-06-2022 11:37am #1

Hi All,

44 year old first time novice lifter hoping for some advice.

I had been having lower back and hip pain issues last year and after none of the physio stuff seemed to be working my physio suggested I try barbell training. After studying up on it a bit I found the Barbell Medicine Beginner Prescription and decided to give it a try. I’ve been running it now for 4 months (but with a 2 week break in between when I was on vacation) and I’m really enjoying it - fully converted to the church of barbell.

Within a month my back and hip pain had improved markedly, and now are pretty much gone. It also seems to be clearing up a number of other niggles I had and in general I just feel like I'm 5 years younger - its great.

I’m now wondering though if I need to move from the template I’m using. I’m still managing to add 2.5k to my deadlift and squat each week and am still making (albeit slower) progress with my Rows – but my bench press and overhead press are really starting to plateau.

I’m primarily lifting to keep improving my health and to build a reserve of strength that allows me to age well and prevent against frailty when I get older. In particular I want to keep my lower back strong and prevent a re-occurrence of the back pain I was having. I’m not looking to lift competitively and am mindful of not going too crazy and getting myself injured unnecessarily. I’m targeting DL 2 * BW, Squat 1.5 * BW and Bench * BW. I currently weigh 93kg’s (179cm tall).

For my heavier lifts in the program my numbers are currently (DL – 4*122.5kg, Squat 4*102.5kg, Bench – 8*65kg, OH press 4*45kg, Row 10*57.5kg). Although I’m still making progress on DL, Squat and Rows I now feel like I’m doing RPE 9.5+ on my final worksets for all lifts – when the program prescribes 8 RPE max.

So I’m unsure about what to do next. Do I just keep grinding on? Do I drop the weight back to a real RPE 8 and increase weight more slowly going forward? Or do I need to move to a new template? If so, given my age and goals what would people recommend? Just move on to the full BBM beginner template? Or the Bridge? Or is there some other more appropriate template I should consider?

Should also say I’m working out at home and am currently limited in equipment to a barbell, 200kg in plates, a squat rack, an adjustable bench and a light set of adjustable dumbells (2*8 kg/ 1*16kg). I know ideally I should join a gym but with long hours in work, 2 young kids and an old fixer upper of a house to work on it suits me best to work out at home - will try and pick up better dumbells later in the year.

Thanks in advance for any advice folks and sorry for the long post. I have been trying to study up on this stuff myself but there's just so much info out there its hard to know what way to go.

Cill94 · 27-06-2022 7:29pm

Well done on getting into the fun world of barbell training and glad to hear it helped your pain.

It's 100% normal for bench and overhead press to plateau first - that's the experience of just about everyone. I'm not familiar with the BBM programming but I don't see any real drawback to moving to a more 'intermediate' programme for those lifts now that you're hitting a wall. Essentially, the rate of overload just needs to slow down and there needs to be some fluctuation of volume and intensity for proper recovery.

It's also in this phase of training where increasing your muscle mass will become vital to fuelling further progress, so it would be worth looking at your nutrition (cals, protein, etc.)

Macsimus · 28-06-2022 12:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119259007#Comment_119259007

Thanks a lot for the reply, really appreciate it. its great that there's so much info out there, but at the same time it can also be a bit bewildering when trying to figure out what suits your own specific goals and constraints.

I'm trying to find a template that I think will work for me and that keeps the workout to 3 sessions per week of c. 2 hrs per workout. I'd probably be at risk of being divorced if I tried doing much more than that 😆

With that in mind I'm thinking of trying find or design a template that does one full body workout day and then one leg day (including DL's) and one upper body day (including some non DL back stuff). Not sure if this makes sense or not, but I was just thinking that I should be trying to hit everything twice per week.

JohnnyJohnJohns · 28-06-2022 7:37pm

I made really good progress on GZCLP but eventually found the routine of it a bit too boring(it's basically those 4 lifts alternating days). I did SBS Hypertrophy after to change it up, it's a 21 week programme with built in progression and I saw good progress on that again. You can pay 10 euro and get all the programmes on Google sheets with a lot of detail on the programme. Both are easily doable and you should see good progress with 3 sessions per week and probably about 1.5 hours per session.

Macsimus · 29-06-2022 8:40am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119263836#Comment_119263836

Thanks a lot. Will have a look at both of them.

DM-BM · 01-07-2022 10:56am

I don't know if you have read this article, it might be worth a try.

https://www.barbellmedicine.com/blog/novice-bench-and-press-plug-in/

It might also be worth having a look on their forum and facebook group for advice on what to do next, if you find their programming working for you.

Black Sheep · 01-07-2022 7:33pm

One good source you could look at is Andy Baker. He co authored The Barbell Prescription and sells several programs on his website that could be logical follow-ons.

You could do a “heavy light medium” program if you wanted to stay doing full body sessions.

Andy Baker sells a 12 weeks classic version of this for 25 usd, and the “garage gym warrior” program is also HLM. I actually ran HLM variations twice in a row and can recommend it, I did it just after finishing a novice LP and I kept my lifts moving.

https://www.andybaker.com/training-programs/

But a lot of people opt to move onto some kind of upper lower split however, and get away from full body programming. You can start to do more accessory work and it can feel more varied.

At this stage I would not recommend writing your own programming. Buy something or do something established, and when picking try to look at who the audience is. Some intermediate programs are aimed at guys in their 20s who will recover much better than you will, and who have a lot more time.

GoogleBot · 02-07-2022 2:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058251998/older-novice-lifter-progression-advice-please

Well done. At your age and from health prospective I wouldn't lift anything heavy if I can't do 15 or more on the first rep.

Patsy167 · 02-07-2022 2:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119280587#Comment_119280587

Stop with your nonsense. You contribute nothing but rubbish to this forum.

GoogleBot · 02-07-2022 2:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119280612#Comment_119280612

Patsy. If you never experienced back pain, joint misalignment or see a variety of people queuing at the doctor's office seeking help after doing stupid things at the gym you will never understand. So if this post irrelevant to you ignore it.

Patsy167 · 02-07-2022 2:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119280669#Comment_119280669

The OP mentions that Barbell training has helped resolve some of their back pain issues. How can this this form of training be considered stupid? I don't know where to start on your logic that doing 15+ reps on the first set is required for compound lifts when the OP is focused on strength training.

Black Sheep · 02-07-2022 4:25pm

Higher rep sets at or near max effort are harder to recover from that lower rep sets at or near max effort. The load may be greater on the lower rep set but that’s generally accepted to matter less than was previously thought.

If you took a 15RM and did sub maximal effort sets based on it (say you did sets of 5-10 based off your 15RM) that would certainly be safe but it would have less training effect than protocols people generally use.

GoogleBot · 02-07-2022 11:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119281117#Comment_119281117

Generally, I agree. But setting routine for higher reps gives safe cushion specially at an older age, for example fat old men, transformed to inspiration for many. Who is also following high reps protocol.

https://bodyspace.bodybuilding.com/permalink/progress-photo/oldsuperman/90801331

Black Sheep · 04-07-2022 9:47am

Before I say this - clearly this topic is totally irrelevant to the OP’s situation. They’re already pretty experienced and seeing results with this style of training. They’re not exactly an elderly lady with osteoporosis enquiring about training!

That said, carrying on-

A higher rep range is not inherently safer. The relevant factor in what you’re suggesting is the loading. A lower rep range could be loaded sub maximally and you’d achieve the same lack of loading on tissues and joints. It would be crap from the point of view of achieving a training effect based on everything I know, however. When would I go that light? A deload, or for someone coming back from covid or a complete novice doing a tutorial maybe.

Even If we selected for load that conservatively, you would still have to progressively overload somehow. The lack of training effect and adaptation would make it hard but in theory you’d still have to put weight on the bar sometime…. Although this would be a great way to ensure it was never much.

Black Sheep · 04-07-2022 9:53am

Also, although I’m not a big fan of anecdotal evidence, I did read the Old Superman clipping.

He looks great. I mean, yeah so he’s bodybuilding with higher rep ranges. As jacked as he is, I highly doubt his higher rep work is light in any sense, willing to bet he had a base coming in and is still pushing hard or he wouldn’t look like that.

A 10-20 rep set can still be heavy AF, and progressively overloaded. Assuming high intensity for both, The load will be less than a 3-5 rep set in absolutely terms but as I said earlier it’s actually harder to recover from that higher rep set as a masters lifter, not easier.

Cill94 · 04-07-2022 11:14am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119280587#Comment_119280587

You do realise that masters lifting is a thing? Miraculously their spines don’t explode despite lifting heavy.

Mellor · 11-07-2022 11:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119280587#Comment_119280587

15 or more kilos on the first rep? Or do you mean lift it 15 times. That's called a set not a rep btw.

A high rep first set is a normal warm up. But 15 isn't a magic number , 12, 10 or 8 would be the same. The RPI would be more inportant than the reps. After that perfectly to work up to heavier sets.

whippet · 11-07-2022 11:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119288329#Comment_119288329

I've squatted 270kg at the ripe old age of 43 and my back didn't explode

Older novice lifter progression advice please

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