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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    It’s not going well on the ground for Ukraine according to the Guardian.




  • Registered Users Posts: 97 ✭✭ZenNature



    " you are some detail with your rotting idea. Will you get up the yard and stay there until called down "

    THE UN WARNED : UKARINIAN WHEAT IS ROTTING IN WAREHOUSE ....

    If Ukraine fails to export grain in coming months, there will be a famine catastrophe, Zelensky warns

    “MEANWHILE , ALL THIS GRAIN WILL ROT IN OUR COUNTRY" ,” the president said.

    Interesting that you think Im a Putin bot sowing dis-information all because Im saying the same thing as THE UN &PRESIDENT ZELENSKY.

    You and all the folks with the thanks, think Im sowing dis-information because I suggested if NATO had left ships in the Black Sea maybe they could have (among other things) facilitated the export of grain to countries in need ... how mad is that !!!!!

    I guess all those people who gave you the thanks, disagree with The UN and Zelensky about grain rotting in warehouses.

    And Im not sure what your point is in this statement.

    " Have you forgotten that Ukr exports a very high percentage of grain used internationally so why would it let grain rot if it is used as a very significant foreign / income earner. "

    I never said Ukraine were choosing to let it sit in a warehouse, I figured it has something to do with the ports being mined so they cant transport it by sea and Ukraine uses Russian guage trains different to the EU and so transport by rail is complicated and slower and less capacity



    Post edited by ZenNature on


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,746 ✭✭✭zv2


    “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” — Voltaire



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,569 ✭✭✭jackboy


    Does anyone know if the west has or has not delivered the promised weaponry to Ukraine? Ukraine are still constantly requesting weaponry. What is going on here?



  • Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Ukraine are constantly requesting weaponry and we are unlikely to see photo ops of it arriving. The optimum number they claim to need is not remotely feasible so they need to keep the pressure on daily so nobody forgets it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 97 ✭✭ZenNature


    " .. you subscribe to this whole feint buisness .. "

    You need to read my comments better, I never implied I subscribed to that idea .. which is why i said MIGHT and HAPPENSTANCE ...It might have been intentional, or just happenstance.

    But your missing the strategic difference that it has already caused, in recent months Russia has for sure made advancements in the EAST and consolidated positions that would not have been possible if the Ukrainain forces in Kyiv had not been tied down. The historians can write the books after and nail down exactly why things were done, for now its best to deal with the result of whats happening and deal with the reality.

    Yep the Ukrainiains are able to rotate in and rest up and Russian soldiers dont have that option. Im not sure the Russian leaders care that much about their soldiers, its not like Russia has a great history of treating their frontline combatants very well, many nations have failed on that. When the Ukrainian soldier returns to the front line, the front line will have moved WEST not EAST. Thems the facts folks, I dont like it, but its REALITY.

    So its a choice between a Ukrainian soldier resting up whilst they are losing ground and territory, or a Russian soldier not resting who is winning ground and territory.

    Either way a Russian springtime offensive that has made inroads in the East and gained cities and territory will now have to be removed during a winter time campaign, else we have to wait till next Spring. Taking a city in warfare has always been a major issue for every nation, sure Russia is losing forces as they fight street by street, but Ukraine will have to retake those and may suffer the same losses. Rains and cold will start late August, early September, from a military perspective things become more complicated to oust a position once winter sets in.

    Perhaps Putins forces have learned from their Kyiv attempt, and changed their tactics . Its what happens in warfare, not my rules, just thats the way it is. All military campaigns do this. You know better than most the American military have probably perfected the art of making monumental fk ups in war and then changing their strategy.

    Lots of similarities to the Battle for Kiev in 1941. Obviously not an exact replay. James Holland (Military historian of note) did a podcast about the Battles for Kiev in 41 and 43 and made alot of analogies. In that instance German First Panzer division encircling Russian forces , resulted in one of the largest battles known to mankind, 700,000 Russians captured and Germany once it had completed its usual massacres of civilians, continued onto Leningrad and Moscow. Stalin had been told to pull his forces back but he didnt . But in this instance it was possible a battle Germany would have been better off losing, as it meant they over ran their culmination point and over extended. Plus they loss of a German soldier was more impactful to them than the loss of a Russian soldier. Seems Putin attempted a Panzer like attack on Kyiv, suffered losses but actually pulled back his forces before it was too late unlike Stalin in 41, and meanwhile made some progress in the East and Russian tank command has adopted its tactics since. So maybe was Kyiv 22 a battle that Putin was better off to lose from a military perspective. No need to get upset with me folks, its what James Holland (war historian) not me refers to as " winning themselves to death, no point in winning battles if you are destroying yourself "

    Its all fascinating, lots to be learned from it, this war really is a condensed proxy of everything.

    Anyways lets hope Ukraine does its version of the Red Armys Battle of Kiev 43 and retakes their lost territory and we dont have to wait 2 years.

    Long live Ukraine.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,746 ✭✭✭zv2


    “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” — Voltaire



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,062 ✭✭✭Hobgoblin11


    Ukrainian aviation conducted about 15 combat sorties in pairs in Mykolaiv, Zaporizhzhia, Donetsk and Luhansk regions, - General Staff of Armed Forces of Ukraine says in the morning report

    will Russia rue not gaining air superiority?

    Dundalk, Co. Louth



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,858 ✭✭✭Rawr


    Also, if they are being even remotely clever about this, they will want to keep the actual levels and preparedness of their newer weapons a mystery to the Russians as long as possible.

    Ukraine needs weapons, will continue to need weapons, and will also likely have a tricky transition period to Nato-tech while the Soviet stuff is drying up. All going well they’ll get to a point that they can go on larger scale counter offensives, but it’s probably best that the Russians can’t guess when that will be, until it’s too late (for them). My suspicion is that Zelensky’s regular requests for arms are partly because they are needed, but also designed to misdirect the Russians into thinking Ukriane are in a worse state than they really are (and so, throwing more Russian conscripts into the grinder and losing many of them)



  • Registered Users Posts: 97 ✭✭ZenNature


    Russian GRAIN harvest is projected to hit or be close to a record this year. Rusisan grain is not under an embargo per se, I believe they can freely sell it on the open market (open to correction) .

    So Ukrainian grain is being left to rot (calm down Im not sowing dis-information about Ukraine grain its President Zelensky words not mine) in warehouses in Ukraine , the ports in the East are mined, seaborne transport of grain is limited, rail tracks in Ukraine are of Russian guage and trains cant run into the EU all grain most be unloaded again at the border for transport to EU. Obviously the planting season in Ukraine is under sever pressure, with about 95 percent of Ukraine wheat is winter wheat, planted in the fall and harvested during July and August of the following year .

    Meanwhile Putins regime is locking in a bumper harvest, and will export this when prices will be sky high. More revenue for Putins regime.

    Has Putin thought this aspect of how the global food system works, thru and is he playing a long term game with the west knowing he holds strong cards regarding food commodities. If this war goes on into 2023, we may look fondly back on 2022 prices in the supermarket.

    When people are starving in the developing world they wont care who they have to pay for food., would you ?

    I dont think our Western leaders response , sanctions etc are doing much, other than raising the cost of a loaf of bread for the man in the street.





  • Registered Users Posts: 4,569 ✭✭✭jackboy


    I am in two minds regarding this Ukranian counteroffensive. On paper it’s plausible but in reality, with politics thrown in, I’m not yet fully convinced that the west will facilitate this.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,059 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    "I dont think our Western leaders response , sanctions etc are doing much, other than raising the cost of a loaf of bread for the man in the street."

    Sanctions and embargoes will work long term to hugely contract the Russian economy. But you're right, in the short term, a coalition of 'friends of Ukraine' may yet choose a more direct form of action and enter the war to drive Russian forces back across the borders. A 'Special Military Operation' if you like.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭relax carry on


    Wars use up a lot of material? It's not the movies where the gun never needs to be reloaded or maintained.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,441 ✭✭✭jmreire


    For some I'd say, compared to Russian prison life, they will be prepared to take the chance.....



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I’m only surprised they’d not done it before now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,097 ✭✭✭threeball


    Unlikely to end well. These people are not the type to follow orders or structure. They will have quite a number of unhinged individuals in their ranks too. The type that would take exception to being asked if they'd like their vodka topped up. So they're just as likely to kill their own as Ukrainians.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,097 ✭✭✭threeball


    One of the best things they could do at the moment is get "winter ready". Proper winter attire and boots. Mobile Heaters to make whatever refuge they take more comfortable. High quality rations. The Russians will have none of this and its going to be a long hard winter after spending months dodging artillery fire. To sit there wet, cold and starving will break most men.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Consistent with views in Sunday papers and interview I heard this morning on times radio with a former special advisor to the US president on Russia and ambassador to Kazakhstan and Georgia. Saying US has given 1/3 of its stock of stinger and other missiles to Ukraine, will be 1/2 at end of year, and may not be willing to provide much more than that. Western cohesion and appetite showing signs of weakening. Little to no chance of pushing Russia back in any meaningful way this year, and after that is all very uncertain.

    All western nations continue to hold the line that any settlement must be acceptable to zelensky, but likelihood is that talks are going on behind the scenes between EU, UK, US and Zelensky about what that peace might look like

    that’s the somewhat pessimistic message from people who know what they’re talking about



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,392 ✭✭✭nigeldaniel


    The weapons are been delivered at a deliberate/managed pace. if too much is sent into the Ukraine at the same time, Russia will just send in an airstrike and blow it all up. It's hard to hide heavy weapons due to their size and the need to transport them by rail or road. Air superiority would be a mega bonus for Ukraine but they don't have that hence why the Ukraine badly wanted a no-fly zone at the start of the invasion. Those static howitzers are an easy target for counter-battery fire which is why so many of them are constantly in need of repair. Even an old-school RPG7 can knock out a big static gun. Mobile units like those supplied by Europe are much better as they can change location every 10- 15 minutes or so making them very hard for Russia to counter. I still feel it was a mistake for President Joe Biden to be so slow at supplying long-range weapons as now most of the est is certainly lost to Russia for the short term. How to retake it is a very big question. It would take an army of 300000 Ukraine soldiers and some very serious hardware support to drive out Russia. Toppling Putin and a regime change in Russia would be a better option as I cant see Russian power brokers continuing to tolerate all these sanctions long-term .

    Dan.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,746 ✭✭✭zv2


    The Americans burned out two M777s in Iraq so a lot of Russian stuff must be well toasted by now.

    They could use them to walk across mine fields at gun point, like in WW2.


    Amazing Javelin shot-


    “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” — Voltaire



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,392 ✭✭✭nigeldaniel


    Very disturbing indeed. There must surely be someone in Moscow who is shaking their head as to what their president is doing.

    Dan.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    It's already contracted Russia's economy. The strength of the Rouble for all the wrong reasons shows that most clearly. Their finance ministry has made three interest rate cuts in as many months to try and cool that off. And they bought into the Rouble with whatever foreign reserves they had left, which of course depleted those ever further. They had to cut interest rates because(very basically) high interest rates are bad because it makes it expensive to borrow and better to save, which in turn means less investment and they're effectively cut off from foreign investment.

    But away from the battlefield in reality and on twitter and even the current Russian economy, it's the medium and long term effect on wider Russia herself that's their biggest problem. There is much talked on both sides, though to differing ends and spin, about their oil and gas exports, which account for nearly 60% of all Russia's exports. And for good reason. A goodly chunk of the West was and is reliant upon them, not least economies like Germany. So we have the crazy setup where Germany's economy and others are helping pay for the bombs dropping on Ukraine.

    However and it's a huge however, Russia became reliant on all the other Western stuff that keeps her going and that's far more serious. A small seemingly minor example is the recent problem Russia's new banknotes have with their ATMs. They can't use them, because their ATMs were made in the West or with Western tech, Western tech that is now cut off from them and that Russia quite simply can't produce and are many years away from being able to. Oh the Chinese will save them!!. Nope, they won't as the vast majority of Chinese tech involved in such things is Western in origin and licence and Russia's economy on its best day is worth about one of the smaller EU nations to China. And other IT production nations like Taiwan, Korea, Japan, Germany, Malaysia and the US aren't going to help them are they?

    Look at their aerospace industry. Never mind the Boeing/Airbus fleet that are now worthless dead planes taxiing. Unlike in the USSR days where they were essentially self sufficient(but with a much larger population) their internal industry has become heaviliy reliant upon foreign tech in design, engines, avionics etc. So that's buggered too. Even their big sticks of oil and gas need Western tech to prospect, extract and transport. Western tech that is again now cut off from them and will take years to develop and build internally.

    Now extend that to everything that has a Western "silicon chip" in it. Computers, booking systems, transport, banking, phone networks etc. All on the clock and all taking years of major investment and cash to replace with an internal industry of their own. Never mind all the other Western stuff they've now lost access to. And that's just the basic overview of their woes. That's before we consider being cut out of the political and economic circle of economies that matter - and no China and India don't count nearly so much as their supporters believe and pray for. International borrowing and leasing and insurance are now closed to them for the foreseeable.

    War is not just a tactical and strategic affair, in the end it boils down to an economic and political one. No matter how Russia does tactically and strategically, even if they take the whole of Ukraine(they won't), they've already lost the economic and political war and badly*.




    *Very early on I felt their biggest fuk up in all of this was their failed run to Kyiv. Sorry "tactical feint". If they had just invaded the so called "independent" states" and had gone whinging to the UN about Ukrainian massacres of separatists and they were peacekeepers and want the UN's help I do think they could have gotten away with it, and certainly gotten away with far less of a crippling hit to their future than they're facing now.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,858 ✭✭✭Rawr


    An excellent point, and I agree. I fully expect all of this to last past the end of this year and possibly longer. The Russian forces could barely manage the basic field rations or gear for a spring / summer campaign, you can only imagine how they’ll cope without enough thermal layers or fortifying meals. If Ukraine can keep their lads warm and properly fed, they can outlast them while the unfortunate Russian lads conscripted into this as cannon fodder, will possibly freeze to death in their trenches.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,746 ✭✭✭zv2


    “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” — Voltaire



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭Curious_Case


    How about a flotilla of tethered hydrogen filled balloons over important cities. Designed to explode if a missile either hits them or passes close by.

    The idea being to either pre-detonate the incoming missiles or knock them off target.

    Smaller ones could be employed over military positions.

    Perhaps mix with helium or nitrogen if more cost-effective and still effective enough.

    Could micro drones be used (too small to detect) to fly into artillery gun barrels and release a jamming substance?



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Helium is inert and won't explode, nitrogen is about the same "weight" as air so won't float and barrage balloons were in play in WW1 and WW2. They've never enjoyed a comeback as they weren't particularly effective if at all. So no.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,702 ✭✭✭firemansam4


    Starting to look quite pessimistic for Ukrainian forces in the east now.

    Unfortunately I dont see how Ukraine will ever be able to retake the eastern Donbas regions again, not unless western nations/ NATO decide to back Ukraine to the hilt and start sending far more advanced weaponry.

    I think their probably was a lot of unfounded optimism here in regards to Ukraine winning and being able to push the Russians back, I was hoping this would be the case, but unfortunately the reality is looking different now.

    As much as Zelensky, Ukraine and others say that Ukraine should never give up any of its territory to the Russians (And they are fully justified to feel this way IMO) , reality will dictate that they may not have any other option unfortunately. I just hope that if they come to some sort of peace agreement to this end that it comes with some sort of security guarantee with it, i'm just not sure how that could happen though.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭Curious_Case


    I wasn't suggesting helium or nitrogen alone. Consider a 50:50 mix of either H:He or H:N if hydrogen alone is too costly or more explosive than required.

    I take your point that weight is an interplay between mass and gravity.



This discussion has been closed.
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