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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,328 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    The US needs to commit to equipping the Ukrainians fully, enough of the half measures in order to avoid upsetting the Russians. The should be training Ukrainian pilots now on strike aircraft, such as the F16s, along with long range precision fires and armor platforms.

    Train and equip them with a goal of facilitating a full counter offensive towards the end of the year. Liberate the coast, reclaim the ports to allow freedom of trade again. Wipe out the rest of the Black Sea fleet. All achievable goals given western technology and sensor advantage



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,346 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    They risk killing many of their own innocent Ukrainian country men and women by doing that.


    Not good optics for anyone.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Us tech can be incredibly complex in some cases especially Aircraft. Just take a look a the cockpits from soviet era jets Ukraine is using vs Current Gen f16.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Apart from the training, which would take Ukrainian pilots out of the sky for a month or more, each F16/F15 would require about two dozen airmen familiar with the platform to keep the jet maintained and operational day-to-day.

    Unless we're talking about basing NATO airmen in Ukraine as maintenance support, that means rotating huge amounts of the Ukrainian air force to somewhere like Ramstein Air Base or the UK for weeks on-end.

    Perhaps it's already happening on the sly and we don't know about it, but I'd doubt it.

    The transfer of Soviet legacy fighters from former Eastern bloc countries seems like by far the best option, but I'm no expert.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,459 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    ... and Russia has such a great track record of keeping to previous ageements 🙄 The only way for long term peace and stability is to leave Russia incapable of invading another country for the foreseeable future.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,278 ✭✭✭thomil


    I don't think the complexity as such would be an issue, a MiG-29 isn't really any older than the F-16, and is hardly an easy to fly aircraft in its own right. Ukrainian pilots would probably be able to fly the F-16 pretty quickly, and they're well versed in air combat tactics, so they won't need to be trained on that. However, the F-16 is designed to function in a much more interconnected battle space than the MiG-29, which is at its heart still an interceptor. Even early models of the F-16 were equipped with data link functionality and could coordinate their weapons fire without the pilots ever saying a word. Attacking multiple targets at once has also been baked in to the F-16's design for quite some time at this point. You don't so much fight in that aircraft as manage it.

    This computer-centric design, combined with the language barrier I think will be the bigger issue. When operating a HIMARS, you can still quickly check Google Translate if you get an error message. That's not really an option when you're pulling 7G trying to shake that Flanker off your tail whilst trying to lock onto his wingman in front of you.

    Good luck trying to figure me out. I haven't managed that myself yet!



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    On the upside to be a bit light hearted. The COD series of games and alike are going to have to Replace Russia with someone else.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,804 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    That's were training comes in. The pilots know the basics of flight, they just need training on a new air frame. There's plenty of NATO countries who transitioned from Soviet era aircraft to NATO, so I'm sure they maybe the best to train Ukrainian pilots.

    Another key difference would be ground maintenance.

    If as NATO has said, that Ukraine are transitioning to NATO equipment, then the Ukrainian air force will need to be trained in NATO aircraft, there's no getting around that. Nobody know's how this war will end but at some stage in the future, Ukraine will have a western equipped airforce, more than likely post war.... but no harm in their pilots getting a leg up!



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,804 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    So looks like 9 months training coming from being a pilot of fighter aircraft to be trained in an F16. obviously the Ukrainian pilots would be well trained in a fighter jet. nearly 5 months into this war, they could have already been training.

    The west didn't want to supply heavy weapons until they did, they didn't want to supply HIMARS until they did. I think the west need to look as Ukraine as an ally in need and pull out all the stops. Making the war end on Ukraine's terms benefits bother Ukraine and the west.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 35,964 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    Will Putin get a head transplant to live on.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    There’s no fear of the states running out of weapons cause it’ll just make more, their the biggest arms manufacturers and dealers in the world.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Just reporting what military experts on the radio are saying.

    weapons are made on a just in time basis, and are struggling with supply chains like everyone else



  • Registered Users Posts: 97 ✭✭ZenNature


    There are 2 ways to discuss Russia technology, you can say its a one narrative story, its all going downhill. Or you can look at the FACTS and admit that yeah they are having issues, but on the other hand they have some things in their favour.

    For instance CNBC and the IEA (International Energy Agency) reports that Russia is one of 2 nations that dominates the Nuclear reactor industry , as I earlier mentioned Russia is the only nation with the first floating sea going operational Nuclear reactor (this is partly with Artic territory expansion in mind) . The IEA stated that Nuclear is a key part of its plan for a a carbon neutral 2050 . Thats hte IEA folks, the global Energy Agency and they want Nuclear as part of the future and they (not me) state Russia is dominating the space.

    Nuclear accounts for 10% of global Energy and Russia is leading the way , and some people think they are doomed cos ATMs are on the blink and chips are hard to come by, think about that.

    So yep they are having issues with ATMs, and have issues sourcing Western technology. Is Russia suffering a brain drain, sure, do they have a pipeline of smart technical people most certainly, will they figure out how to replace the access to western technology , probably. Just as Im sure China will be more than happy to fill whatever gap was left by Russia losing access to the West.

    Next time someone tells you Russia is going to suffer a technological collapse , take a look up at the night sky and try to find the bright moving dot that is the ISS (International Space Station) and remember that the West and NASA spent 20 years paying Russia to give them a lift to the space station.

    Russian and Chinese designs dominate nuclear reactors, warns IEA chief

    https://www.cnbc.com/2022/07/01/russian-and-chinese-designs-in-87percent-of-new-nuclear-reactors-iea-chief.html



  • Registered Users Posts: 97 ✭✭ZenNature



    " War is not just a tactical and strategic affair, in the end it boils down to an economic and political one. No matter how Russia does tactically and strategically, even if they take the whole of Ukraine(they won't), they've already lost the economic and political war and badly*. "

    is this a Chemical Ali moment ... lost the economic war badly !

    We, EU, our leaders are going to send Russia 500 million by end of day, around 3.5 Billion by end of week, over 10 billion by the end of the month.

    You even admitted yourself we /EU/Germany are paying Russia to bomb Ukraine and then you claim Russia is losing the economic war .. yikes.

    Western economic media agencies report Russia has already hit their budget projections for 2022 energy revenue.

    Western economic media agencies report Russia has overtaken Saudi Arabia as Chinas main source of Oil.

    The UK reports 5 million people are in fuel poverty.

    Germany reports 20 million are at risk of of fuel poverty.

    The inflation thread on Boards is one of the most active in recent weeks ... and some people on boards want you to think Russia has lost the economic war.

    I guess your implying that if Russia is losing then we are winning, or maybe your not. Does anyone (bar Warren Buffett, energy traders and energy stock holders) in the West feel like they are winning the economic war.

    All our leaders are promising is that long term we will win . Do you really believe what they say, do the facts really indicate we will be able to crush Russia economy as Russia pivots to the East and is welcomed with open arms, as the West shts itself as the upcoming winter will cause all sorts of agreements to go out the window when the real impact comes in , and all those meaningless sanctions most of which were kicked down the road just get kicked further down the road.

    Is the ruble strong for all the wrong reasons, no, is it strong for all the right reasons no, theres no absolutes, but its strength is due to some positive economic reasons and some negative economic reasons.

    I wish I was losing my economic battles and someone was sending me 500 million a day .



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,746 ✭✭✭zv2


    One factor that needs to be considered is how Donbas was seeded with native Russians after WW2, just like Ulster was seeded with British protestants. It is not really Russia's territory.

    “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” — Voltaire



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,035 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Recent reports of US running low on stingers and other munitions, and due to component shortages the manufacturers announced they need to do a redesign of sorts before they can reproduce more



  • Registered Users Posts: 97 ✭✭ZenNature


    Circa 1200-1350 when Genghis Kahn and the subsequent Mongol Empire - The Khanate of the Golden Horde marched to and established its reign as far as the Danube, it was only by Russia/Slav/ puishback and Eastward Russian re taking of territory that the spread of Islam and the Mongol empire was put to an end. And Russia remained a bulwark against Islam expansion ever since as they promoted Eastern Orthodox Christianity.

    So I guess if you ignore Russia saving us from Islam in the 13th century thru to all its contributions to the arts, music, science, technology, literature, film, medicine, and the deaths of 27 million Russian during WW2 , one could ask have they ever been the "good guys" .



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Oh great "FACTS" man/woman is back.

    Russia are not "leading the way", they're simply building more nuclear reactors. There's a difference. You can be sure the IT systems and infrastructure to operate them aren't transisters and valves and where do they get that stuff from? And I hate to break it to you all nuclear powered ships are "floating sea going operational nuclear reactors". The dozen US aircraft carriers for example, or nuclear powered submarines(which are more controlled sinking than floating to be fair).

    So yep they are having issues with ATMs, and have issues sourcing Western technology. Is Russia suffering a brain drain, sure, do they have a pipeline of smart technical people most certainly, will they figure out how to replace the access to western technology , probably. Just as Im sure China will be more than happy to fill whatever gap was left by Russia losing access to the West.

    China will do nada but the bare minimum. You don't get this; they can't afford to do anything else. Russia is a tiny market for their economy, great for now cheaper oil and that's about it. If they tried to "fill whatever gap"(which is huge BTW) with tech, the vast majority of it western licenced tech, the same West would not be happy and China are not stupid.

    Next time someone tells you Russia is going to suffer a technological collapse , take a look up at the night sky and try to find the bright moving dot that is the ISS (International Space Station) and remember that the West and NASA spent 20 years paying Russia to give them a lift to the space station.

    Yep the Soyuz launch system is a truly fantastic piece of kit. Problem for your argument is it first flew fifty five years ago. It's good old fashioned command economy Soviet tech, when they were leaders in space(their RD-170 rocket engine another fantastic bit of kit), incrementally updated in Soviet times and after the fall of said Soviet Union bankrolled by America and "the West", because America dropped the ball there in a big way. Now you have SpaceX who took that ball up again and Russia has nothing within an asses roar of what they're doing and capable of. China as usual copied and tweaked existing Russian launch kit and brought little to the party yet. Oh and the Soyuz is no longer being bankrolled by the West and her replacement system Orel heavliy subsidised and reliant on Western money and Western tech is now stalled.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    More bullet points from the Mother Russia is winning handbook. I know a few Russians and I have heard the exact same stuff from them because that's what they're hearing from Mother Russia's Ministry of Information. To be fair you're far less obviously daft than most who pass this stuff on, you haven't touched on the conspracy theories stuff, or touched on the Decadent West(oh wait, you did), but you still don't have much to go on and keep repeating the same points, while ignoring the wider truths out there.

    Russia and Saudi Arabia have bounced back and forth over the last twenty years as "China's main source of oil". The difference this time is they're buying it at massive discounts.

    The "look, your leaders are betraying you" stuff is also from the above handbook. As is "China will pivot to Russia". No, they won't. You're not getting this basic fact. Sorry FACT! They. Can't. Afford. To. Almost their entire economy is based on Western tech and Western markets. Their biggest single market is America, with the EU following on behind. A recession in Russia won't hit them save for getting even cheaper oil from them, a recession in the West would cause a massive contraction in the Chinese economy and they well know it.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 97 ✭✭ZenNature


     " And I hate to break it to you all nuclear powered ships are "floating sea going operational nuclear reactors". The dozen US aircraft carriers for example, or nuclear powered submarines(which are more controlled sinking than floating to be fair). "

    Clearly I meant operational nuclear power stations.

    THE IEA seems to think Russia is leading the way , and as they said themselves RUSSIA IS DOMINATING THE SPACE.

    " China will do nada but the bare minimum. "

    China is on track to spend 200 million a day on Rusisan Oil .

    So you say Rusisa is losing the economic war as the EU sends 500 million a day to Russia.

    And you say China will do the minimum, and yet they have increased imports by 50% and are spending 200 million a day on Rusisan oil.

    Are you sure you want to use that tag line signature on your name .

    https://www.power-technology.com/news/russia-floating-nuclear-power-plant/#:~:text=Akademic%20Lomonosov%2C%20the%20world's%20first,power%20plant%20includes%20coastal%20infrastructure.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Eh not quite, though again something believed in Russian narratives. The battles of Vienna(Holy Roman empire and the Poles) and Lepanto(the Catholic league of Spain and Italy) had far more impact on Islam's spread into Europe, never mind Castillian Spain pushing Islam out of the Iberian peninsula.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,059 ✭✭✭✭Furze99




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Clearly I meant operational nuclear power stations.

    You speak of things you seem to not understand. You know how to turn a nuclear reactor on a ship into an "operational power station"? You attach a wire to it and plug it into the grid. It's already an "operational power station". That's literally what it is and does. Where do you think the lightbulbs and cookers and radios and computers on a nuclear sub get power? Magic?

    THE IEA seems to think Russia is leading the way , and as they said themselves RUSSIA IS DOMINATING THE SPACE.

    Yer Mother Russia can't produce the chip that controls the capslock function you're so fond of using...

    China is on track to spend 200 million a day on Rusisan Oil .

    Cheap Russian oil. Of course they are.

    And you say China will do the minimum, and yet they have increased imports by 50% and are spending 200 million a day on Rusisan oil.

    Imports that were already small and now are cheaper so just like their oil so of course they'll buy more. The problem you're avoiding is on the export side. Do tell; where are the bulk of China's exports going? You know, the stuff that actually drives their economy. The stuff they can't afford to lose. I'll give you a hint, it's not Russia.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭nigeldaniel


    The IEA will say that because they want more funding themselves. [a boogeyman is handy]

    China is communist through and through, with the oddity of money. they love money and will take money whenever its on offer. So Europe and the US will always be a priority to them. They certainly don't want to see 1,000,000 million of their citizens out of work any day soon.

    China would drop Russia like a hot spud if someone else had cheap oil for sale.

    The EU is sending less and less money to Russia, by the end of this year it could be less than 10

    China again... sorry to hit a cold spot but they care naddy for Russia. All they want are patsies in their pocket like N Korea.

    Dan.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,254 ✭✭✭EltonJohn69


    Genghis Kahn vs the Russians … I will look into that…. Genghis was a bad dude



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,826 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Nuclear power had its heyday from the 50s to 70s.


    It's an old tech.


    In most of Russia people are too poor to have many electric appliances.


    Shortage of chips is much more serious for them than being the leader in an old tech.


    Russia in fairness to them always had fantastic scientists, stymied by the degradation, control and inhumanity of their Marxist system.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,702 ✭✭✭firemansam4


    And how do you suggest this is achieved? Direct Nato involvement?

    I did state that any agreement will need to come with some sort of security guarantees, because it is pretty obvious that Russia can no longer be trusted.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,746 ✭✭✭zv2


    This war will be decided by NATO. Whoever has the most ammo. and best weapons wins. It is as simple as that. If they can produce a vaccine in record time they can produce the ammo. They need to wake up and act and finish this war promptly.

    “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” — Voltaire



This discussion has been closed.
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