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Housing Ukrainian refugees?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 323 ✭✭sonar44



    Fair enough, 2% of the EU population is about 9 million so we are still not at a figure that is readily computed.

    It's just a discussion. Something more important is bound to come along.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,457 ✭✭✭FishOnABike




  • Registered Users Posts: 13 brenersar


    Can anyone explain why in Ireland we pay them 208x4=832EUR per month, when Finland pays only 350EUR, Germany 400EUR.

    Ireland has the highest debt amount per person in EU. Why we are so large and easy going with public funds. I in FB and Telegram groups with Ukr refugees, many of them are withdrawing their temporal protection applications in other countries and moving here attracted the endless benefits, word of moth spreads quickly. Absolute brainless policy of our gov.



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ Pearl Loud Textile


    I wonder how much the hotel bill alone is going to cost



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,278 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    This is my feeling, but I think the activist class or a lot of them are hand in hand with business owners, a lot of them are upper middle class individuals who will be shielded from the fallout and will be oblivious to and uncaring about the plight of Ireland and it’s people going forward.

    before the Ukrainian situation there was predicted to be an extra one million people added to our population over the next 30 years….what’s going to happen with this situation, then the Ukraine joining the EU…? You are going to see astronomical population growth and strains put on the finances of this state and its citizens … and the services we need like healthcare, transport, etc…

    politicians don’t care

    businesses don’t care

    NGO’s don’t care

    because all of them are shielded from the negative impact of rapid population growths on these scales, both financially and socially….and in fact they’ll probably all benefit. Politicians want the extra votes, businesses want extra profits and NGOs as always value the wellbeing of everyone else before ANY of us….

    the man and woman on the street getting absolutely shafted like never before….and there will be no recovery,



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    I see it in a similar way. Yes, I have compassion about Ukrainians, and yes, they need help, but I have my strongest reservations that every time I turn on the RTE, especially Radio 1, the main subject is welcoming and housing Ukrainian refuges in Ireland with open arms, whilst many Irish born and bred can't afford anything in Ireland and are facing impossibly high rents and prices to buy.

    Also there are other European countries where there is much more space available to house them, often at a way cheaper cost and possibly the language is also more similar to Ireland.

    Sadly, any difference in opinion is seen automatically as something between "racist" or "hate" or maybe both.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭peter kern




    Countries bordering Ukraine *CountryNumber

    Poland 3,315,711

    Romania 901,696

    Russia 800,104

    Hungary 594,664

    Moldova 461,742

    Slovakia 415,402

    ireland about 25,000

    i leave the answer to you who is doing enough and who could do more reading both statistics.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    Housing in all of these countries is way different than in Ireland.

    I also leave the answer to you.....



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    This is a perfect example of the hyperbole around Ukraine and it’s “refugees”. About 80% of the country hasn’t seen a firework go off, never mind a bomb.

    Yet it’s tents and warehouses or death according to those who scream the loudest.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    I think what most people arent seeing here is that this is a competition for cheap labor force.

    Invite them in, a fair amount of them will stay. And there you have your replenished supply of cheap labour where people already living here would not have worked for the money on offer.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭riddles


    Simon Harris has paved the way for free university education and grants for Ukrainians. Who approved all this?

    I guess we are seeing the short term nature of politics coming to the fore. Politicians are governed by spin doctors whose primary function is to guide politicians away from and around substantive issues.

    That said we had a chance to abolish the Seanad and issue the Dail with the powers of compellability both of which were rejected by electorate.

    so yes questions about how, where and why taxpayers money is spent are off the table as is a discussion about planned and structured inward migration.

    we will have 2 taxpayers to 1 ratio is 20 years moving from 5 to 1 today. Not even a topic for Pascal and the gang right now.

    Progressive government should allow the public to vote from a list of backlog topics which are prioritised within the dail and converted into real outcomes.

    the sh1t show of complete fiasco led decision making is the reason we are in a jock. The childrens hospital will act as lasting reminder of the levels of incompetency with our government and public services.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭peter kern


    ok hungary has almost twice the population of irleand and 20 times more ukarnainas staying and you are saying its not fair for ireland.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,829 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    I think the Politics forum has now gone full Current Affairs/IMHO.



  • Registered Users Posts: 62 ✭✭nickkohl


    Ukrainian families should be helped as much as possible as long as a time limit for the visas are impose. Just found a great blog on how to help the Ukrainians cope https://www.gfg.eu/1987 . Very interesting article

    Post edited by nickkohl on


  • Registered Users Posts: 414 ✭✭dorothylives


    I don't believe that most of them arriving here are refugees. I think most are opportunists who come from parts of Ukraine unaffected by war and who see this as a once in a lifetime chance to get out of a poor country. I see many of them as little more than economic migrants. Yes I have sympathy for Ukrainians affected by war, no, I don't want anyone who is Ukrainian or claims to be Ukrainian, arriving to Ireland with the hand out looking for their 208 euro a week Dole, full Child Benefit, Medical Card, free education, hotel room and 3 meals a day. The piss is being taken and it needs to end.

    I had much more sympathy at the beginning of the war when I saw the images of elderly people in bombed out areas and women fleeing with children and pets. But that's not what I see in my area and I live in a town with a lot of them and a county with a lot of them. I'm seeing healthy young people, often single and often males over 18 and under 50. There was a huge outpouring of goodwill and donations, including from myself at the beginning when they started to arrive, that's gone now.

    People feel like they've been had and they're angry at having to jump through hoops for Social supports while people from Ukraine arrive here and are handed everything for free and often free apartments locally that were bought as investments and never rented out since they were built decades ago, all of this while there isn't a property to rent locally. Some people say that they don't blame the Ukrainians themselves for taking advantage, well I do blame them for it and I think that there's going to be a massive public backlash against them. They're getting much much more in Social welfare supports than they'd earn by working back home. They are not going to go back home.



  • Registered Users Posts: 414 ✭✭dorothylives


    Harris is just like Leo and Simon and Helen. He knows he's out of a job after the next election. If they stay in Ireland they'll be looking for work with an NGO or looking for a career in Brussels or at the UN. Either way, the decisions they're making are not what's best for the people of Ireland they are making the decisions that are based around what Brussels wants to see implemented in the EU. Nothing more and nothing less.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭peter kern


    where you in the same way pissed of that ireland has received 40 billlion euro more from eu than it has invested into eu up to date. did you also say this is not good for most eu countries to invest money into a poor country...

    iam sure you make a few solid points and of course there is some issues i would be interested how would you deal with them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 414 ✭✭dorothylives


    We send almost a billion euro a year overseas in Foreign Aid money, government increases that in our budget year on year. We had 5000 Asylum seekers arrive this year, on top of over 40,000 Ukrainians with uncapped numbers having been given an open invitation to come here. We are part of many schemes bringing refugees here. We are borrowing billions to pay for this. We spend millions every year just on Direct Provision. I don't know what hosting Ukrainians has cost this year, I do know that already 3 billion is set aside for them next year. There was over 1 billion left in the Covid fund here, that was also spent on Ukrainians.

    I'd love to know what the breakdown costs of us having had Direct Provision here from the start of the Lagos Express has cost us. All of it, the accommodation, the cost of their claims, everything from the admin staff to run the process, the solicitor and barristers and legal secrataries fees for all of it. The countless endless failed appeals that don't seem to have a limit. Then we got Helen McEntee announcing anyone who'd been here for 2 years waiting for the asylum claim to be processed could stay. Regardless of whether they are entitled to, regardless of whether they are criminals. Funny enough the application process is over 2 years.

    Most counties have the bulk of their hotels/guest houses and B&B's fully occupied by Ukrainians and African/Middle Eastern refugees/asylum seekers. I'd love to know what that's costing. Factor in medical cards, free education, full social welfare payments, child benefit payment, HAP payments, back to school allowance and on and on and on and on and tell me how much you think we've spent, how much of that 40 billion is being spent on Irish people and the foreigners who are here legally with skills we need and then get back to me on how well you think Ireland has benefited compared to what we've invested because if anything we're going to have spent far more on it than we've gained from in in the longer term.

    My solution, very simple. Anyone whose arrived here with no passport doesn't get considered for asylum, they're straight back on the next flight with the airline that brought them. Anyone with a failed appeal is on the first flight back home. Capped numbers every year on people we can accept and no more for anyone than what they'd receive in DP. An end to Foreign Aid money, we can't afford it. A balancing of the numbers we bring in on agreed schemes from the Middle East. An end to Ukrainian asylum seekers here. MM is in Kyiv or whatever it's called this week for a photo op. It's time to build tented refugee camps in Ukraine and let people rebuild their lives.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,632 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Direct Provision was set up as a method to deter would be asylum seekers - which was a wholly wrong system.

    A better system would be to standardise the application system for would-be asylum seekers. The application has to be made on arrival in Ireland, at least within 48 hours (or whatever). The method of entry explained and verifiable. The sate has x weeks to examine that application, bearing in mind the country of origin, the last country visited, etc. If the application is accepted, then OK. If refused, the application can be appealed based on stated reasons that cannot be changed later. The appeal must be decided in x weeks, with a final verdict. Failure means expulsion back to either country of origin or country last visited be fore entry.

    The whole process should not be longer than three months - otherwise it is basically a prison sentence.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,372 ✭✭✭✭Geuze




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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,632 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Anything you like - but standard for all seekers of protection. It needs to apply to all of them, with the reason for qualification for protection, not just for economic betterment - just because there are problems in a country is not enough. Reason for refusal must be given by the authority.

    Any appeal for a refusal has to be timely and well documented and no further information can be added. A refusal on appeal has to be final, otherwise repetitive appeals follow. Expulsion must follow on from a failed appeal (otherwise, what is the point).

    There are some seekers in direct provision for over a decade - that is inhuman and the very opposite for existence of an asylum process. Whatever the result, a refusal is better than constant delays in limbo. If they have come here for a better life, surely DP is not it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭peter kern


    correction based on GNP ireland has halfed its foreign aid which peaked in 2008 at o.6 percent of gnp.

    and in the eu its at best average based on percentage of GNP where ireland gives around o.3 percent of gnp and the top european nations are around 0.9 percent of gnp

    this might also give you a little indication how much more those 40 billion from the eu are worth,given that in 2000 0.3 percent gnp in foreign aid was worth 250 milion and in 2019 that was 870 million



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,632 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    GNP is a bad measure for Ireland.

    The MNC figures grossly alter and inflate our figures so it is invalid to compare it with other EU states.



  • Registered Users Posts: 414 ✭✭dorothylives


    Thank you for the statistics. I'm sure that the money could be put to much better use in Ireland for people here who genuinely need that money, Irish people. We are spending a fortune, Christ only knows how much on hotels, guest houses and B&B's for scam artists from around the world while still sending hundreds of millions abroad. Why did our foreign aid peak in 2008? Oh yeah, the bubble burst and the IMF stepped in and stepped on our necks. The reality is sinking in with many not just in Ireland but around Europe, that a huge number of Ukrainians arriving as refugees are from areas unaffected by war and who are simply taking advantage of the opportunity to get to the EU.



  • Registered Users Posts: 414 ✭✭dorothylives


    DP is a roof over their heads, 3 meals a day, clothes on their backs, medical cards and free education. If they pop out a kid or 2 here then they are more than likely here to stay. They're in DP for so long because of the unlimited appeals they can make. It should be a decision reached and if someone doesn't qualify they they are deported straight away. We can't afford this anymore, we never really could. I hate to say it, but I can see the same thing coming down the road with Ukrainians if when their visas expire they have to go home.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,253 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...the real reality is, our political and economic ideologies are starting to collapse, we have plenty of money to resolve these issues, without inciting racial tensions, we ve just decided, the best thing to do with all of this money is to just keep (re)inflating asset prices with it, i.e. trickle down is a bust!

    ...again, afford it, damn right we can! stop using money to keep inflating asset prices!

    many of these folks simply dont have homes to go to, we have decided to effectively wreck their homes, hence why theyre here!



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭peter kern


    well that is the problem being a tax heaven for multinationals which is the real problem not taking enough tax from big companies not the ukranian refugees and finance aid . the 13 bilion apple money would have gone a long way.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭peter kern


    i understand you have a me me me approach and in a way that makes sense but like it or not this is a globalized world and ireland is one of the richest nations and solidarity is also important .

    anyway i see we wont agree there but i do agree ireland as a nation could distribute wealth better in ireladn as well, as abroad .



  • Registered Users Posts: 414 ✭✭dorothylives


    At least we can agree that we won't agree. I love your naivete that Ireland is a rich nation, on paper perhaps but not for the very many people already struggling from one pay check to the next. All it takes is for the big tech companies to be unable to recruit staff from abroad to relocate to Ireland because our cost of living expenses are too high and we'll see an exodus of those companies. Ireland's leprechaun economics are a global joke. I make no apologies for putting my own family and the people of Ireland before the needs of any other country.

    The price of diesel, petrol and home heating fuels as well as solid fuels are through the roof. The price inflation and gouging that's happening in every sector of our economy is atrocious and it's all only going to get worse. People are already struggling and then there's the global recession that's on the way. Meanwhile the Irish government has put Ukrainians ahead of it's own people and continues to invite more and more. It's been almost 3 weeks since we had an update on the number of Ukrainians who've arrived, it was 39,000. Strange how the numbers we were having reported daily have stopped, it's almost like the public mood has changed.



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