Sophie: A Murder in West Cork - Netflix.

07-07-2022 10:38am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119302834#Comment_119302834

Detective Gilligan, the forensic detective part 3 about 43 mins in of netflix doc said

"Big old spoon and I literally went through all the ash to see what was remaining within that fire scene.

We removed big items including mattress, springs

Then i found small items from clothing, buttons, coat buttons, jeans, boots there was there was there was even boots"

That is a direct quote from Gilligan

07-07-2022 10:53am

In the West Cork Podcast Detective Gilligan, after explaining how he used the spoon to sort through ash, says "shoe eylets, clothing buttons, jeans other tiny bits of bed clothing there was parts of the mattress of beds sprung mattress there was shoes. Straight off we were aware that a lot of items had been delibeartely destroyed"

Direct quote from Gilligan

odyssey06 · 07-07-2022 10:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119303055#Comment_119303055

Which could be interpreted as a general cleanout e.g. mattress and random clothing.

But it does not substantiate your original claim:

the forensic policeman says they found coat buttons in the garden fire remains

tinytobe · 07-07-2022 11:19am

Suppose Bailey killed Sophie, what would his motive have been? ( and he must have had a motive, because hiking for nearly 1 hour to her house, and then back in the middle of the night after a long night out in the pub takes some effort )

Did he have a financial interest in killing her? I don't think so. Was it sexually motivated? Like did he want to sleep with her and she denied? Possibly, but not certain.... Or was it sheer lust of killing?

Or even, did she know something incriminating about him, and was blackmailing him, so he killed her?

Was a motive ever investigated by the Guards?

flanna01 · 07-07-2022 11:35am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119303055#Comment_119303055

It was a fire..

Items had been deliberately destroyed? - When do you burn items with the intention to not destroy them?

Back in the day, it was common practice to burn excess material (garbage) once in a while.. Especially in the rural area's.

The quote from Gilligan is bias and misleading.. 'Straight off we were aware that a lot of items had been deliberately destroyed'

Could that not have been.. 'We were aware that Bailey had recently had a clear out and burnt some rubbish out the back, nothing related to the murder was recovered'

The context of Gilligan statement was designed to add weight to the suspicion of Bailey committing the murder - Nothing less.

It was the likes of Gilligan and his colleagues that made a total hash of the original investigation. Instead of working the case from the get go, getting the supporting evidence they needed to bring a case against a suspect, they did the total opposite...

Focused only on one suspect. Used every innuendo and illegal entrapment technique under the sun to sway public and national opinion, which backfired spectacularly, thus allowing the murderer to get away with.... well, murder.

Gilligans statement plays straight into the hands of any good defence lawyer worth his salt.. It's a bias, unsupported statement.

Bailey could be the man...? I don't know who murdered Sophie. But the failure to bring the killer to justice lies soley with the pathetic antics of the Gardai investigation from day one.

If you can't see how bad the discrimination was, how corrupt the whole investigation was, how rotten to the core the lead detectives were.... I can't help that.

Gilligan's statement is only the tip of the ice berg when it comes to corruption. In this day and age, he would have been sued for slander at the very least.

tibruit · 07-07-2022 11:54am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119303281#Comment_119303281

Wow....what a bizarre post. Everything Gilligan said was factual and certainly wasn`t slanderous. You on the other hand have accused him of corruption which is slanderous because you can`t substantiate it. I don`t know why I even bother.

07-07-2022 11:56am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119303080#Comment_119303080

that is from the podcast Did you not read what i wrote re the quote from netflix. post 1052

Detective Gilligan, the forensic detective part 3 about 43 mins in of netflix doc said

"Big old spoon and I literally went through all the ash to see what was remaining within that fire scene.

We removed big items including mattress, springs

Then i found small items from clothing, buttons, coat buttons, jeans, boots there was there was there was even boots"

That is a direct quote from Gilligan who said COAT BUTTONS were found in the fire

07-07-2022 11:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119303372#Comment_119303372

so bizarre it is not worth a reply.

sporina · 07-07-2022 12:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119303202#Comment_119303202

i'm a bit rusty with the details of this story - I watched all the docs/listened to the podcasts an age ago..

but I rem that Sohpie's friend said that someone wanted to meet her about "the arts" or something like that... writing, poetry... I reckon that was Bailey..

He was out drinking.. walked up to her house that night and recited a few of his poems to her and she laughed - and he didn't like it and went crazy after a feed of whiskey...

thats one theory I had on it back then..

But in any event - the cops made a mess of this case from the start.. there wer 2 other suspects if I rem right, a German lad and someone else.. and they wer not chased up at the time..

The cops made soooo many other errors with this case... from the start - too many to mention

It did look like they wanted to frame Bailey.. but he gave lots of rope with which to hang himself...

I doubt they will ever get to the bottom of it now though.. which is a shame for the family and Sophie

tinytobe · 07-07-2022 12:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119303611#Comment_119303611

In my opinion the motive of Bailey was never properly investigated. The attitude "Bailey did it" was narrow minded from the start, as it stood for, we have nothing on him, let's pin something on him, ah, we can't find anything on Bailey, ( Marie Farell, Martin Graham....), but still the opinion "Bailey did it". Hence the investigation by the Police was going nowhere from the start.

I'd say physically he is a big strong man, could handle a larger amount of drinks in the pub with ease, maybe 5 pints or 6 one evening, and a longer hike over to Sophie's is probably easily accomplished by him? But that would have meant, he would have arrived at 2am at Sophie's at the earliest. I don't even think Sophie would have opened up the door to anybody at that hour of the night, unless it was something urgent, or something pre-arranged or a close neighbour like Alfie or Shirley.

And yes, then Bailey was burning clothes in the back of the studio, he had scratches on him, both would be incriminating, but circumstantial, but certainly suspicious.

However the police was never able to shine any light on Bailey's motive and investigate from a motive and evidence point of view. It was "Bailey did it" from the start.

dublin49 · 07-07-2022 1:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119303698#Comment_119303698

I suppose for motive ,Bailey + drink = potential for violence against women ,

tinytobe · 07-07-2022 1:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119303736#Comment_119303736

It's possible. However if it was just directed at women, he could have been violent towards Jules on that night. Or even started showing signs of violence in the pub? To me it's just hard to imagine that Bailey hiked for a whole hour in a violent rage to Sophie's not even knowing if she would open the door to him at that time? I'd say there must have been more to it.

odyssey06 · 07-07-2022 1:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119303390#Comment_119303390

And we come back to - how does he know they were coat buttons? What was the basis for that claim?

I don't trust a word that comes out of that guy's mouth, and some random Garda is not going to be an expert in such matters.

Is this the same detective that alleges Bailey burned the coat but neglects to mention a coat was taken into eviddence?

whatchagonnado · 07-07-2022 1:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119303736#Comment_119303736

That's not motive, that's more his MO. The motive might be she rebuffed his advances. IF it was Ian at all.

tinytobe · 07-07-2022 2:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119303924#Comment_119303924

Come to think of it, if she rebuffed the murders advances the murder scene would have been different. Her dress would have been torn, or she would have been partially undressed. Also, it's hard to imagine, he would have attempted rape in plain sight near the gates, even if it was at night time.

I also don't think that Sophie would have opened up the door after midnight to Bailey or anybody else and Bailey would not have been at her house before 1.30 or 2am, if he left at at say at 12.30 at night?

Regarding the time of the murder, I'd say, it was either before midnight, or early morning, while it was still dark. At both times she could either have opened up the door to some stranger or had a pre-aranged meeting with somebody.

07-07-2022 2:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119303885#Comment_119303885

And we come back to - how does he know they were coat buttons? What was the basis for that claim?

why don't you ask him. do your own research

he is not a random garda he is a forensic expert. Since you seem to not be able to understand there is such a thing as forensic science in crime i will not respond to this nonsense again. bet you would believe in forensic science if it cleared bailey

flanna01 · 07-07-2022 3:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119304297#Comment_119304297

A forensic expert...

Sifting through the burnt remains with a big spoon..

Yeah right..

odyssey06 · 07-07-2022 3:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119304297#Comment_119304297

Is he a forensic expert in terms of analysis? Or is he a Garda forensic detective in terms of collection of evidence?

It is an entirely reasonable point to question the basis for an 'argument from authority', given we know the Gardai in this case have engaged in malpractice as per the AGS report.

07-07-2022 4:12pm

I wonder if Bailey first tried soaking the coat then burnt it because he may have read online that bleach would not remove all forensic. maybe he did an online search. the article he was writing was about a internet access being in a pub, a new thing at the time. Maybe he went and googled

07-07-2022 4:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119304569#Comment_119304569

that was part of the kit they had. It doesn't matter what you find it with. you obviously do not understand forensics. Do your own research and then maybe you can give the impression you know what you are talking about

yourdeadwright · 07-07-2022 4:16pm

I wouldn't not trust the Garda in this case to have any evidence that hasn't been ruined at this stage ,

Didn't the gate go missing from the back of the Garda station probably being used in someone field as we speak ,

whatchagonnado · 07-07-2022 4:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119304750#Comment_119304750

(Google wasn't invented at the time. Searching on the Internet wasn't really that prevalent either)

07-07-2022 4:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119304865#Comment_119304865

i know it was only starting. i wonder if there are still records of searches made in the few places that had internet.IB didn't have it at home and he would not have used his own if he had. He ony had a typewriter then as far as i know

07-07-2022 4:36pm

https://www.discovermagazine.com/the-sciences/want-to-get-away-with-murder-use-a-special-detergent

I wonder what kind of bleach he bought

tinytobe · 07-07-2022 5:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119304750#Comment_119304750

Was Jules ever asked by the Guards, if some of Bailey's clothes were missing? After all they lived together, so she must have known, if something was missing.

Also, if Bailey's knowledge on bleach and stain removal was so limited or his clothes were full of blood, how come he didn't leave anything incriminating on the crime scene?

07-07-2022 6:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119305261#Comment_119305261

Was Jules ever asked by the Guards, if some of Bailey's clothes were missing? After all they lived together, so she must have known, if something was missing.

Don't know what if Jules was asked that

Also, if Bailey's knowledge on bleach and stain removal was so limited or his clothes were full of blood, how come he didn't leave anything incriminating on the crime scene?

I don't know maybe he left it on his coat, i.e maybe that is why his coat was stained if it was.Or maybe he left something incriminating that wasn't found. After all the first forensic man there was only a fella with a spoon. Mvac might find something the spoon missed

====

A year old thread on reddit says the guy MF was with was a DSupt. You know anything about that, I have not heard it before?. Also i read somewhere earlier that there were two other males in the house the time the Italian girl was there?

tinytobe · 07-07-2022 6:43pm

I haven't given MF much thought as she lied, gave false statements and even left the courtroom. She has not much credibility with me. I've read that as well somewhere, that MF was with a Guard that night, but not sure, where I've read or heard that.

I've heard that story as well, that Jules had a lot of guests staying over. Could have been an excuse for Bailey to work in peace and quiet at the studio? But also, the guests could have seen or noticed something odd as well?

07-07-2022 8:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119305453#Comment_119305453

Agree no credit for MF

https://www.reddit.com/r/cork/comments/odgiff/sophie_toscan_du_plantier/

"it’s well known the man MF was with was a DSupt in the local area, so I could well see that they pressured her to change her story"

No idea if true first time i saw her said to be with garda, have seen her said to be with mystery man

It's on a post on this thread from last night about the two other young men staying in Jules house that night

07-07-2022 8:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119301984#Comment_119301984

There were 2 other young men staying in the Thomas house on the night in question...neither of them noticed the bloody clothes soaking in the bucket (as described by the Italian lady).

who were they? I haven't heard this before. So there were Ian and Jules, the Italian girl, Jule's daughter and these two males?

It seems crazy to think that the overcoat of a man of Bailey's height would even fit into a bucket?

It depends on size of bucket, there are those big plastic buckets you use in garden

And Bailey was clearly seen wearing his long black coat on a video of a Christmas Day swim in Schull two days later.

Maybe he had two coats destroyed one and then made sure to be seen in the video.

tinytobe · 07-07-2022 9:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119305901#Comment_119305901

I don't think that any guests staying over at Jule's had any motive or interest to kill Sophie, they probably didn't even know who she was or where she lived, and how to hike there at night. The name Toscan du Plantier was probably not very well known outside of France at that time, probably not even in Ireland, only that she was as film producer.

The killing wasn't random, it was intended and brutal to send a message, and the killer knew Sophie was there.

Sophie: A Murder in West Cork - Netflix.

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