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Dublin - Metrolink (Swords to Charlemont only)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,373 ✭✭✭✭lawred2




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,865 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Varadkar didn't mention €23bn, some gobshite asked him about the €23bn and he gave a typical wishy-washy, don't rule anything in or out politician answer when asked about something they have no clue about.

    Who else are you going to wrongfully claim brought up the €23bn figure, Mickey D maybe?



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,407 ✭✭✭✭road_high




  • Registered Users Posts: 34,807 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,242 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    You're completely wrong there Pete, but I don't expect you to acknowledge that.

    Varadkar brought up the €23bn figure himself on his interview on Newstalk yesterday morning. The interviewer asked about cost and Leo went off into the €23bn figure himself - around 52 minutes into the Pat Kenny Show yesterday. I'll await your apology seeing as how you are claiming I wrongly said Leo brought up the €23bn number himself......he did.👍




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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭strassenwo!f


    Most of that is true, but it is a definite stretch to say that it links with the Red Line, at least not under the current plans.

    Though, perhaps, they may change, if the developers of the Carlton site lose patience with the metro delays.

    But nobody should be thinking that a plan for a metro station near one end of O'Connell Street, with a minimum of a 300 metre walk (perhaps longer) to a Red Line LUAS stop much closer to the other end, amounts to a proper 'link' between the two lines.

    It simply isn't a link, by any modern standards, and we have thus far, at least, been spared any official documentation pretending that it is.

    It was rather unambitious, I felt, not to try to have a proper link, given that the Red Line is such a huge carrier. But, again, the apparently primal fear of disruption on the streets of the city may have won the day.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭strassenwo!f


    A poster above asked if this project would connect with the LUAS, and, under current plans, it will do, at Charlemont, on the southside part of the Green Line.

    This metro will be pretty much adjacent to the recently built Northside Green line, just 400 metres away, for much of its journey to and in an around Glasnevin. There won't actually be a connection between the two lines around there, and they will, unfortunately, be two lines doing pretty much the same thing, beside each other, in that area.

    I would like to have seen greater spatial provision of rapid public transport into and out of the city, but it seems that ease of construction won the day.



  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,402 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,173 ✭✭✭1huge1


    Plus it will also be connected to the green line at O Connell St,

    I take the above posters point though that further down O Connell St may of made more sense to connect to the red line directly but then it would be very close to Tara St which itself is a connection to Irish rail and is close to the red line.

    Id say maybe a 5 minute walk to switch to the red line from Tara to Abbey at, (same from the O Connell St metro stop), longer than desired for sure but not unheard of on in some metro systems around the world (within the same station).



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,517 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Bus Connects Blanchardstown was lodged a few days ago and DART west will be lodged shortly and metrolink offers huge connectivity benefits to all of Dublin. I seen someone say similar that nothing was been done for finglas and that that it was ignoring the northside. There's some curious creatures out there



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  • Registered Users Posts: 326 ✭✭MyLove4Satan


    It is clear as day that the <snip> Varadkar pulled the 20 BILLION number out in order to kill the Metro while setting himself up as the taxpayer's saviour by pretending he knew the real cost and 'leaked' it out to the public on their behalf.

    He is <snip>

    Mod: Vulgar abuse removed.

    Post edited by Sam Russell on


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,697 ✭✭✭Economics101


    Mod : Quoted post removed for vulgar abuse.


    I you have a point to make, could you please cut out the vulgar abuse.

    Post edited by Sam Russell on


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,715 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    And it connects with the Green Line at Tara Street too - the new diagonal walkway from the Poolbeg St/Tara St junction to the Townsend St/Hawkins St junction through the new massive development under construction there will make College Street much more accessible to the stations at Tara Street.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,121 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    I wonder would there be a case if possible to install platform screen doors at Tara Street for when the new trains arrive. They probably wouldn't be compatible with the ICRs mind you but the platforms there are narrow enough and might benefit from it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,620 ✭✭✭✭AdamD


    Mod : Quoted post removed for vulgar abuse.



    This is an interesting take given hes one of the very few who publically questioned NPHET..

    Post edited by Sam Russell on


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,689 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Mod: Please do not post abuse of people who cannot answer back. Sanctions will follow.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,689 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    If you are suggesting this for the Dart line, I would think the curve would be difficult to accommodate this. There would still be a gap to mind.



  • Registered Users Posts: 168 ✭✭9320


    Seriously if you think a 300m walk is not a link or connection you're just being deliberately thick - how many metres is it from platform 1 in Heuston to platform 7/8? Is it Bank and Monument in London that are linked and are essentially the same station.

    Most people parking in Blanchardstown Shopping Centre will walk the guts of 300 metres to enter the shopping centre.

    Nonsense point.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,148 ✭✭✭gjim


    I recall reading in one of the ML documents that the O'Connell St stop was deliberately positioned away away from the Middle Abbey St./O'Connell St intersection to avoid disruption to Luas operations during construction. And actually the distance from the ML entrance to the Abbey St. corner will be a little over 200m, not 300m.

    I actually agree (maybe a first for me with strassenwolf?) that ideally the ML stop would be positioned closer to the O'Connell St Luas stops to provide more comfortable integration with the Red Luas (interchange with the Green line is less important) with say an entrance at the Middle Abbey St corner. However I think the compromise is reasonable to avoid the incredible disruption which would have resulted from trying to build a station under this busy intersection - not just to Luas but also to the many bus routes that pass through this axis as well as pedestrians and general traffic.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,701 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    I wonder why they've decided to put a plaza above where ML is going in at Tara Street. That part of Dublin is kind of a dead zone aside from the offices in the area and people going to/from the station itself. I can see a plaza there only attracting undesirables especially at antisocial hours. It's prime real estate so they should try to build something above it as part of metro construction. Instead, we're going to get a plaza not unlike the one behind Busarus luas stop.



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,689 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    The PPP is not needed but a single supply and maintain contract for rolling stock, line maintenance, and signalling is all that is needed.

    PPP is just Public money into Private Pockets. Normally in such contracts, the taxpayer takes the risk and the private side pockets the profits. PPP is private funded borrowings paying a portion of the project cost. It is generally true that the Gov can borrow at cheaper rates that commercial rates. The motorways built with PPP have turned a nice profit for some.

    [Aside: Have there been any PPP funded projects that have benefited the public purse - apart from borrowing (at higher rates) allowing the project to be off-books?]



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,148 ✭✭✭gjim


    I agree with this. There is no draw in this area that would create a "vibrant public space" as gushingly described in the video.

    They should just build (hotels and apartments) over the entire block and at the same time upgrade heavy rail station - it's the third busiest station in the country and is the most central heavy rail station in Dublin. The platforms should be much wider and more accessible and the entire station should be under a roof and it should be integrated better with ML (i.e. not requiring passing through one station exit at street level and walking to another street level entrance for interchange) and have multiple permanent entrances/paths to the platforms.

    If there's one location in Dublin where the air-rights for construction would be valuable, it's here - the entire heavy rail line between the quays and Townsend st should be built over. The top of the cantenary is only 3 stories up.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,121 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    Are the Metrolink trains going to be powered by OHLE or third rail?



  • Registered Users Posts: 326 ✭✭MyLove4Satan


    fair enough - thanks for keeping my post up as I'm right about this.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭strassenwo!f


    Are there many people, or indeed any people, coming into Heuston on platform 1 and going out again from platform 7/8 as part of their daily commute?

    With Bank (4 lines) and Monument (effectively 1), the two stations were built separately, and were then linked underground long after they were built. You'd expect the transfer times to often be quite large between so many lines, but I recall some of the transfers there are particularly memorable. In other such large stations that I have been in, they are not so large.

    And, the urgency to get to one's target is not the same in Blanchardstown Shopping Centre from the edge of the car park is not the same as wanting an efficient transfer during one's commute, given that most people are going to be spending an hour or more at the target.

    I recall reviving an old suggestion on the 'Metrolink - Alternative Routes' thread, namely that a metrolink station might be built, underground, between the two existing rail lines at Drumcondra, with a view to opening a station along the canal, and having a connection between the metrolink and both overground rail lines. These two lines are about 160 metres apart, so a connection between such a metrolink station and either of them might be around an optimum of 80-100 metres, and maybe 200 metres if you were at the very end of a train.

    Well, the flippin' outcry which ensued! Way too long, absolutely impossible for commuters, etc.

    Yet here - and it does seem to be difficult to find any diagrams of proposed station layouts, etc, for metrolink on their website - if we are still talking about the old Carlton cinema for much of the OCS stop, my estimate remains at 300 metres for an interchange between the metro and the Red LUAS. It's already 175 metres from the Abbey Street Stop to North Earl Street.

    Once again, fear of disruption, at almost any cost seems to be an overriding feature of this project, and we this on O'Connell Street, at Glasnevin Junction and at St. Stephen's Green. And perhaps elsewhere.

    The disruption will pass, but sub-optimal solutions to absolutely minimise disruption will remain in the life of this metro.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,183 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Sometimes changing at King's Cross I swear I walk for about 15 minutes sometimes



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,517 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    The carlton site is an opportunity to build a station with limited disruption, opening up O'Connell Street yet again would be unpalatable for the public. Anyway its settled now, the railway order isn't going to change. At least until the scheme is cancelled and reinvented again.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,865 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Under a standard contract, the contractor does the work and gets paid or it. Under a PPP, the contractor gets paid over the course of decades so require external funding as they generally can't carry €X00,000,000 cost for so long from their own pocket. The advantage is any defective work eventually catches up with them, any failures or "technical difficulties" are their problem and if they won't fix it, they stop getting paid. If they have been paid everything already (which they have to be if not getting paid over the long term), its a nightmare to get them back. They will claim any issues are due to poor maintainance/another contractor/whatever, roll it all up and give it to one company and they can't avoid responsibility.

    You can change the letters to any words you want but it's pretty childish. If private companies werent maintaining these things through the PPP, private companies would be maintaining them through separate contracts. The exact same companies would be doing the work regardless if PPP or not, the manufacturer or their local agent will do the maintenance. They need access to parts/software and experience of that system, handing that work to someone else would be madness. This applies to the trains themselves, lifts, escalators, trackside doors, ventilation systems, emergency systems, etc. etc. Moaning about private companies making a profit is just stupid, do you really think it would be better value for the taxpayer for TII to have their own direct employees for this and to negotiate access to the parts, software, etc.? (I assume you are not mad enough to think that they should develop their own version of all these things to avoid the private sector altogether!)



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,689 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    I have no problem with private companies being involved with contracts for maintenance etc. Why are they required to fund the project? I cannot believe a private company can fund cheaper than a sovereign state with credit rating Ireland currently has.

    If the problems begin to catch up with the private company, they simply go bust. Even the banks went bust in 2008. What happens to the contract then?



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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,404 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    I can’t say for certain not having access to the accounts but I would be 99% sure the State made a great decision getting a PPP company to build the N25 Waterford bypass. Going by reports in the papers the companies involved got absolutely hosed on that one



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