Cork - Light Rail [route options idenfication and initial design underway]

salmocab wrote: »

I’ve no local knowledge but I use the green line in Dublin regularly and it went on the easy route. It’s not quite the same but I’d say there’s a balance between using the easy route and getting the route to the optimum places and densities of people.
The green line uses for the most part an old railway cut and whilst some of the areas it serves mightn’t have the highest densities It has the advantage of not having much interaction with traffic for that section.
All this is said based on me admitting I haven’t a clue what’s the best route for a city I don’t live in though.

marno21 wrote: »

There’s also 2 tennis courts and a car park on the alignment.

Zebra3 wrote: »

The Luas extension to Finglas is target date 2030 and that’s for just 4km.

cgcsb wrote: »

It isn't a simple matter of time per km build. Cork's first luas line can be built in as quick with work on various sections happening simultaneously.

Maybe they'll do a better job than the dog's dinner of a system built in Dublin.

The platforms are too high for modern light rail if I'm not mistaken, so they would have to be lowered once the line actually starts construction.

Potentially stupid follow-up question: This isn't the first attempt at building a LUAS type system in Cork. How far did the previous attempt get? Did that even get to preferred route and planning, or was it derailed prior to that?

Plenty hot air and the usual reports written, nothing serious ever happened.

I don't think that would be a good idea. It would require at the very least a complete reconstruction of the platforms to allow step-free access to low-floor light rail trains. The line to Cobh is also an extension of the main line that comes down from Dublin via Mallow, so by introducing a break in service type by converting the Cork - Cobh/Midleton part to light rail service would torpedo any chance of developing a suburban heavy rail service.

I'm not saying that a Stadtbahn style system doesn't have a potential place in Cork, but I think that would be more of an option when it comes to reviving some of the West Cork railways, as outlined in that white paper drawn up earlier this year a number of public transport advocates. So, keep Cork - Cobh/Midleton as heavy rail with the aim of adding more stations north of Cork, keep the Cork LUAS separate, with the option of later using it as the nucleus for a potential Karlsruhe style Stadtbahn system out to West Cork would be my idea.

The big advantage comes for light rail from midleton to ballincolig comes in the future - it's easier to build new stations , and it creates and east- west public transport line that most other city transport crosses ,

Any new development on the north docks could be closer to stops and not have to change at Kent .

. Does midleton need heavy rail ?

If you were going mallow , blarney ,Blackpool Kent and out to cobh would that need to be heavy rail ?

Well, there's a can of worms to open up ...

Is it a case of all teams are light rail but not all light rail are trams 😁

That's the old American definition, but in general it is fair to say that it is a far looser one nowadays, with most new tram systems being viewed as either light rail or a subset of it.

LUAS is a tram but is also viewed as light rail.

There's no advantage to converting the line to Midleton and Cobh to light rail. It would cost a lot of money and much easier to electricity those existing lines and have a seamless transfer to the Cork Luas at Kent.

Midleton is getting double tracked and electrified in the future anyway .. along with several new stations , and some of the stations currently have a "step up "to the train , there's also going to be issues at the level crossing in midleton town when the up the frequency , the barriers are down for 20 mins an hour at peak times , doubling the service will bring that to 40 mins ( at peak ) ,

There's also the issue of "seamless changes at Kent " people are happy to change , but there is resistance to multiple changes - very few journey's end at Kent station , so if you were traveling from .dunkettle or Tivoli , you'd have to change at Kent just to get to the city centre , and have to change again if you were going to towards kinsale road , or mahon or Douglas , or anywhere else really ..

Nah. Its too slow and it goes too far for a tram.

It'll work better in a small city like Cork, but Dublin was sold a pup.

The line proposed in Cork is not far off the length of the red line actually. It'll be interesting to see how the navigate the MTU/Btown/CUH/Victoria Cross/UCC section. That seems like it'll cause design issues.

I’m not sure I’d agree. The only section that’s essentially greenfield is the piece between Ballincollig east and MTU. The rest is solid concrete. The line is obviously available from east of the city centre to Mahon but the section I mentioned above will be difficult. Although I have seen the preliminary map since and it seems to suggest that it’ll run behind the hospital so that might make it a little easier.

I think Cork should have 3-4 of these lines but the reality is Dublin doesn't even have that.

Unfortunately both these cities are run by a state with a terrible urban planning record.

€1.37m spent so far on Cork Luas project; Calls for 'firm explainer of proposed route' 

24/10/22

The costs to date “are associated with the fees for the development of route option selection and feasibility studies including transport modelling, environmental assessment, engineering design and associated surveys”.

MORE than €1.37m has been spent so far on costs associated with the Cork Luas project, as the wait continues for the emerging preferred route to be announced.

A breakdown of the money spent from 2020 up to this month was provided to Labour Party TD for Cork East, Seán Sherlock by the deputy chief executive of the National Transport Authority (NTA), Hugh Creegan.

Mr Creegan stated that, following the completion of the Cork Metropolitan Area Transport Strategy (CMATS), which identified an east-west light rail line as a key element of the future transport network, the NTA instructed Transport Infrastructure Ireland (TII) “to commence the development of the route option selection and feasibility study phase of the Cork Light Rail Project/Cork Luas”.

The project commenced in October 2020, he said. That year, €77,077 was spent, followed by an additional spend of just over €571,500 in 2021 and a spend of slightly over €726,369 this year up to October 6. It brings the total amount spent on the project so far to just over €1,374,946. 

Mr Creegan explained that the costs to date “are associated with the fees for the development of route option selection and feasibility studies including transport modelling, environmental assessment, engineering design and associated surveys”.

Parliamentary question

The information was provided to Mr Sherlock after a parliamentary question he submitted to the minister for transport regarding the money spent to date on the project was referred to the NTA.

Commenting on the figures, Labour local area rep Peter Horgan called for more clarity on the light rail project.

“That’s a lot of money to have spent on the light rail project,” he told The Echo.

“What we need now is a firm explainer of the proposed route, the total cost of the project, and timelines for when it could be operational.

“We need to know if this is going to be an achievable public transport project that serves the whole city.

“It would be evident that more park-and-rides are a necessity for such a light rail project.”

In August 2020, Jacobs Engineering Ireland was awarded the contract to undertake a route options analysis and develop initial designs for the proposed Luas Light Rail Transit (LRT) system which will run from Ballincollig, on the western outskirts of the city, to Mahon Point in the east.

The 17km east-west Luas-style system is one of the biggest elements of the CMATS plan.

The proposed scheme will provide a high-capacity, high-frequency public transport link and will serve destinations including Munster Technological University, Cork University Hospital, University College Cork, Cork City Centre, Kent Station/Cork North Docklands, and Cork South Docklands.

Speaking back in April, Mr Creegan told The Echo that it would be later this year, “probably towards the end of the year”, before there would be an emerging preferred alignment determined that would be available for release.