Mass Protest in the Netherlands by Farmers.

If you do a carbon footprint test, the biggest factor is flights, all the those talking about climate change don’t count their own footprint as they are raising awareness. It’s just the latest thing to preach about while doing nothing helpful. If you want to do something then stop flying, I won’t hold my breath though.

You ultimately don't need your laptop or phone any more than an orphan in India digging through a landfill for scraps needs a laptop or phone. The people who build them for you are only satisfying your demand for same.

My point was that you cannot hold those poor peoples' situation up as a target for the West or something to aspire to. Because the status of them being impoverished is (hopefully) temporary. Once that is sorted then they will be massively contributing negatively to the planet. So it is fair to look at their total current contribution in order to get an idea of the magnitude of the issues that will inevitably come from there.

If you have less children, it will more than be made up by others who choose to have loads of children. All you have accomplished is reduced the proportion of people in the world who may actually care for the environment (yourself & your descendents) and instead others and their children who may not give 2 sh*ts will inherit the earth. The earths population will grow one way or the other - we should be trying to educate all of course, but we must also ensure that our ideas around nature and the preservation of the environment are not lost. By not having children you make it slightly more likely that these ideas will be lost.

These kinds of statistics are based on the weird carbon budgeting rules. If I buy a good I'm seen as responsible for all of its carbon emissions right the way down the chain, which is not really the case.

Yep and as the West's native population dies, its ideals die with it. Any notion of saving the planet will die off with the greens who insist on not having children to save the planet. The irony!

The population was 8 million on this island before the famine, but people didn't really consume anything except food so nothing was as polluted. It's not down to population it's down to how we live and the amount of waste we produce.

Well as I already said, they're not going to put a cap on reproduction any time soon, so if we do want the planet to remain intact, what and how much we consume are all we can really focus on.

I live in the east of the country and there is more of a 'presence' of the protests. Enough people around town with an upside down flag and a red handkerchief on the car antenna. I would presume that the most people cannot stand behind the Farmer's Defence Force. Where the head of the group has likened the plight of Dutch farmers to the victims of the Holocaust.

Back to the teenager arrested in Friesland; I have my doubts if a deliberate shot at the tractor was really necessary. But for a teenager to climb behind the wheel at the end of the day to go to a protest on a motorway with heavy police presence, was a dumb ass decision. Luckily for him he's been released and charges have been dropped.

Bangladesh is about 1.5 times the size of Ireland, it has something like 100mn people and 160mn mid century.

No problem there.

Green politics should not just be a vehicle for moralising rich White people, that must change.

While I agree. I feel some big problems with the green agenda (perceived or otherwise) are

1) A lot of its most public advocates seem to adopt a do as I say not as I do approach....the jetting around to conferences, lavish lifestyles etc

2) Some sacred cow activities that produce large quantities of CO2 that most like doing are off the menu (for now at least)

3) Quite a number of proposed changes merely shift the CO2 production elsewhere..........as long as its off balance sheet for a country its ok if you slash and burn over there etc

4) Regardless of its beneficial effects it looks like it will increase food and energy insecurity in developed countries

5) Its nearly always the smaller business person/producer that gets driven out of business/has to pay for it while large companies/industries (many of them directly responsible through production/misinformation campaigns) get off seemingly scott free (make record profits in some cases)

6) Some of the changes while potentially ruinous to the small guy don't appear to achieve that much in the overall context.....I'm aware that smacks of whataboutery and everyone needs to do their part ...but...its a pretty big whatabout..............how can anyone do anything about developing nations or tell them they cant start living the lifestyles we had?.....................................in fact we seem to want to incentivise them by importing products and incentivising production activities in those countries......people seem to think its hopeless, like a virus we wont be able to halt the destruction of the environment that supports us.

As an aside some of those advocates mentioned in (1) above appear to be heavily invested in alternative products with questionable benefits if you consider things in the round (vested interests in business that benefit from the green agenda - you could argue that's just sound investment/good business but when the ones that advocate also own business that stand to benefit it does give pause for thought)